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Forums - Sony - Sony NOT Learning from PS3 Mistakes - 3D TV Plan Will Fail

Garcian Smith on 06 January 2010
Ail said:

And the reason they are doing this is simple.

It's called Avatar...

That and ESPN and Disney are launching 3D channels this coming June...

 

If you don't believe, go watch Avatar on an Imax and then come back...

 

3D at the movie theaters works because it's a one-shot gimmick. You pay the normal price for a ticket, put on those stupid-looking glasses, get awed for two hours, and then go home. It's cheap, convenient, requires no commitment, and offers an experience that you can't get anywhere else - in other words, it's exactly what consumers want.

However, what works at the theaters doesn't translate at all into the living room. Your average person wil pay ten bucks to see a 3D movie, but not several thousand to upgrade their A/V gear for home 3D viewing (and subsequently possessing the "privilege" of having to wear those stupid glasses just to catch the evening news... in 3D!) Home 3D TV viewing is neither cheap, nor convenient, and requiring a complete shift in their TV-watching habits. And while it does offer a new experience, the things that people normally watch on TV (news, reality shows, sitcoms, and such) translate poorly into the 3D format, as opposed to a cinematic glitz-fest like Avatar.

In other words, there's simply no comparison.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

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Lord Flashheart on 06 January 2010

Hopefully Sky get their 3d channel ready before june.
Got to see that world cup in 3d.
Blurred 3d due to the fact I'm English and will be drinking heavily while it's on.

I just thought of something? If I start seeing double when I've had a skinful and put my sutter glasses on would I see just 1 image? Would I see things in 2d?



Official member of the Xbox 360 Squad

disolitude on 06 January 2010
Lord Flashheart said:
Hopefully Sky get their 3d channel ready before june.
Got to see that world cup in 3d.
Blurred 3d due to the fact I'm English and will be drinking heavily while it's on.

I just thought of something? If I start seeing double when I've had a skinful and put my sutter glasses on would I see just 1 image? Would I see things in 2d?

Haha.

world cup will be fun...sitting like retards with dark glasses, drinking beer...and yelling "WHOAAAAA!".



Ssenkahdavic on 06 January 2010
disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Icyedge said:
disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

To use 3D you need a TV (like the OPs) that takes 120+hz from source.  If your current tv does 120/240 make sure it does this from source (and not an internal upscale) for this tech to work.

I think this is a great idea.  The leader in sports here in the US, ESPN, is lauching 3D broadcast on June 11th for the World Cup

With the cable stations following suite, its very possible this tech will take off.

Not necessarily.

DLP TVs (and plasmas that support 3D) use a checkerboard pixel pattern which allow them to take 60 Hz and display images in 3D. And they do this much better than few 120 hz LCD monitors since there is no ghosting lag.

There isn't a 120 HZ "TV" that is able to do this on the market right now. There is a bunch of LCD monitors, 2 samsung plasmas and the Mitsubishi DLP/Laser TV line... and thats it.

All of the people that bought the "120/240 hz TV" have been douped!

Yup thats right. Theres only a very few TVs out there that support 3D. Most 120 Hz are not 3D ready. While its true that you can display on 60 Hz (ive been doing that for along time on my cathodic Tv). You will see flickers and small image duplication (also call ghosting) which have been the biggest problem for 3D as a home media. Hopefully Sony will fix that with a constant 120 Hz, and will show the way for some kind of standard in displaying 3D (checkerboard, vertical or horizontal interlace etc).

While it is true that the checkerboard pixel pattern will allow this to "work" its still juts a gimmick.  The tv HAS to support full 120hz input from source to do this properly.  While you will be able to view it, you will not be able to view it the way it was meant to be viewed.  Ill find the source and put it up when I get home later.

Complete nonsence.

Checkerboard pattern at 60 hz on DLP/Plasmas looks much better than 120 hz LCD monitors. I have both. Checkerboard has absolutely no ghosting... there is absolutely no delay in the checkerboard pattern while 120 hz monitors still have 0.1-0.3 ms refresh rate which the eye can see hence there is ghosting. 2007 DLP checkerboard 3D will look better than 120 hz 3D ready TVs for atleast 2-3 more years.

The only downside is that the resolution is halved since 1920x1080 pixels is used to display frames for both eyes. Its a form of interlacing... however its pretty clever and the eye really can't tell the difference unless they ae looking at really fine things like in game text or edges of polygons...etc.

Here.  Go read.  I think we jumped off the topic of this thread.  This is about Sony's new PS3/blue-ray 3D plans, not about anything you or I might currently have or have seen.  Also, read here.  This article states that they will deliver 1080p to both eyes (no blur = 60hz per eye).



 

  

The Only True Next Gen Game - Hero-U

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Robert A. Heinlein

Lord Flashheart on 06 January 2010

I read that for those with blu-ray players that are HDMI 1.3 won't get 1080p per eye, they'll have to make do with 1080i only those with HDMI 1.4 will.



Official member of the Xbox 360 Squad

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disolitude on 06 January 2010
Ssenkahdavic said:
disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Icyedge said:
disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

To use 3D you need a TV (like the OPs) that takes 120+hz from source.  If your current tv does 120/240 make sure it does this from source (and not an internal upscale) for this tech to work.

I think this is a great idea.  The leader in sports here in the US, ESPN, is lauching 3D broadcast on June 11th for the World Cup

With the cable stations following suite, its very possible this tech will take off.

Not necessarily.

DLP TVs (and plasmas that support 3D) use a checkerboard pixel pattern which allow them to take 60 Hz and display images in 3D. And they do this much better than few 120 hz LCD monitors since there is no ghosting lag.

There isn't a 120 HZ "TV" that is able to do this on the market right now. There is a bunch of LCD monitors, 2 samsung plasmas and the Mitsubishi DLP/Laser TV line... and thats it.

All of the people that bought the "120/240 hz TV" have been douped!

Yup thats right. Theres only a very few TVs out there that support 3D. Most 120 Hz are not 3D ready. While its true that you can display on 60 Hz (ive been doing that for along time on my cathodic Tv). You will see flickers and small image duplication (also call ghosting) which have been the biggest problem for 3D as a home media. Hopefully Sony will fix that with a constant 120 Hz, and will show the way for some kind of standard in displaying 3D (checkerboard, vertical or horizontal interlace etc).

While it is true that the checkerboard pixel pattern will allow this to "work" its still juts a gimmick.  The tv HAS to support full 120hz input from source to do this properly.  While you will be able to view it, you will not be able to view it the way it was meant to be viewed.  Ill find the source and put it up when I get home later.

Complete nonsence.

Checkerboard pattern at 60 hz on DLP/Plasmas looks much better than 120 hz LCD monitors. I have both. Checkerboard has absolutely no ghosting... there is absolutely no delay in the checkerboard pattern while 120 hz monitors still have 0.1-0.3 ms refresh rate which the eye can see hence there is ghosting. 2007 DLP checkerboard 3D will look better than 120 hz 3D ready TVs for atleast 2-3 more years.

The only downside is that the resolution is halved since 1920x1080 pixels is used to display frames for both eyes. Its a form of interlacing... however its pretty clever and the eye really can't tell the difference unless they ae looking at really fine things like in game text or edges of polygons...etc.

Here.  Go read.  I think we jumped off the topic of this thread.  This is about Sony's new PS3/blue-ray 3D plans, not about anything you or I might currently have or have seen.  Also, read here.  This article states that they will deliver 1080p to both eyes (no blur = 60hz per eye).


At this point these are just meaningless press statements.

I will admit that Bluray plans are exciting and I am looking forward to watching 3D movies...but out debate was 60 hz checkerboard 3D vs 120 hz LCD refresh.

Check out this thread where people that actually own this stuff are posting.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=155016

As things stand right now, checkerboard 3D will give you less of a headache and provide you less ghosting than 120 hz LCD monitors made by samsung or Acer. Sony doesn't make them yet...but I don't see them making anything different from the other 2 companies. LCDs still have latency between pixel changes...even if they bring it down to 0.1 milisecond from black to white...its still 0.1 milisecond more than checkerboard which has ZERO 3D latency.

Here is how checkerboard works fo those that are interested - http://mtbs3d.com/gallery/albums/S3DHARDWAREGUIDE/dlpchecker.jpg

Also, because chekcerboard is done on the DLP side...taking the signal and converting it to checkerboard format, it is pretty safe to asume that 3D blurays will work on checkerboard based TVs. But I guess this is to be see how sony integrates 3D in to bluray... For all we know, you may be forced to get only a Sony brand TV for this to work...knowing how sony can be jerks when it comes to propriatery hardware.



BoneyBoy on 06 January 2010

Avatar sucked in my opinion. Crappy cliched story.

Beowulf in 3D was 10 times better than Avatar.

Until we get 3D porn .... I'm not getting a 3DTV



Lord Flashheart on 06 January 2010

There already is 3d porn.

Just not that much.




From what I've been told*

*seen



Official member of the Xbox 360 Squad

Vexxmania on 06 January 2010

LG just introduced a new line of TVs: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=da&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flatpanels.dk%2Fnyhed.php%3Fsubaction%3Dshowfull%26id%3D1262798280

Let the 400/480 Hz shenanigans (which in reality will probably be a 200 Hz system with backlight strobing, coming from LG) begin!



PS3 Will Be King By 2016.

PLAYSTATION®3 is the future.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

Ssenkahdavic on 06 January 2010
disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Icyedge said:
disolitude said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

To use 3D you need a TV (like the OPs) that takes 120+hz from source.  If your current tv does 120/240 make sure it does this from source (and not an internal upscale) for this tech to work.

I think this is a great idea.  The leader in sports here in the US, ESPN, is lauching 3D broadcast on June 11th for the World Cup

With the cable stations following suite, its very possible this tech will take off.

Not necessarily.

DLP TVs (and plasmas that support 3D) use a checkerboard pixel pattern which allow them to take 60 Hz and display images in 3D. And they do this much better than few 120 hz LCD monitors since there is no ghosting lag.

There isn't a 120 HZ "TV" that is able to do this on the market right now. There is a bunch of LCD monitors, 2 samsung plasmas and the Mitsubishi DLP/Laser TV line... and thats it.

All of the people that bought the "120/240 hz TV" have been douped!

Yup thats right. Theres only a very few TVs out there that support 3D. Most 120 Hz are not 3D ready. While its true that you can display on 60 Hz (ive been doing that for along time on my cathodic Tv). You will see flickers and small image duplication (also call ghosting) which have been the biggest problem for 3D as a home media. Hopefully Sony will fix that with a constant 120 Hz, and will show the way for some kind of standard in displaying 3D (checkerboard, vertical or horizontal interlace etc).

While it is true that the checkerboard pixel pattern will allow this to "work" its still juts a gimmick.  The tv HAS to support full 120hz input from source to do this properly.  While you will be able to view it, you will not be able to view it the way it was meant to be viewed.  Ill find the source and put it up when I get home later.

Complete nonsence.

Checkerboard pattern at 60 hz on DLP/Plasmas looks much better than 120 hz LCD monitors. I have both. Checkerboard has absolutely no ghosting... there is absolutely no delay in the checkerboard pattern while 120 hz monitors still have 0.1-0.3 ms refresh rate which the eye can see hence there is ghosting. 2007 DLP checkerboard 3D will look better than 120 hz 3D ready TVs for atleast 2-3 more years.

The only downside is that the resolution is halved since 1920x1080 pixels is used to display frames for both eyes. Its a form of interlacing... however its pretty clever and the eye really can't tell the difference unless they ae looking at really fine things like in game text or edges of polygons...etc.

Here.  Go read.  I think we jumped off the topic of this thread.  This is about Sony's new PS3/blue-ray 3D plans, not about anything you or I might currently have or have seen.  Also, read here.  This article states that they will deliver 1080p to both eyes (no blur = 60hz per eye).


At this point these are just meaningless press statements.

I will admit that Bluray plans are exciting and I am looking forward to watching 3D movies...but out debate was 60 hz checkerboard 3D vs 120 hz LCD refresh.

Check out this thread where people that actually own this stuff are posting.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=155016

As things stand right now, checkerboard 3D will give you less of a headache and provide you less ghosting than 120 hz LCD monitors made by samsung or Acer. Sony doesn't make them yet...but I don't see them making anything different from the other 2 companies. LCDs still have latency between pixel changes...even if they bring it down to 0.1 milisecond from black to white...its still 0.1 milisecond more than checkerboard which has ZERO 3D latency.

Here is how checkerboard works fo those that are interested - http://mtbs3d.com/gallery/albums/S3DHARDWAREGUIDE/dlpchecker.jpg

Also, because chekcerboard is done on the DLP side...taking the signal and converting it to checkerboard format, it is pretty safe to asume that 3D blurays will work on checkerboard based TVs. But I guess this is to be see how sony integrates 3D in to bluray... For all we know, you may be forced to get only a Sony brand TV for this to work...knowing how sony can be jerks when it comes to propriatery hardware.

I never said anything about a 120hz LCD tvs.  I said 120hz from SOURCE (no matter the type of TV).

That article talks about 3D vision (nvidia), something that is not PS3/Sony's 3D TV plan.

The second shows what it does, which is awesome but it does not offer any explanation. 3D Ready has always meant nVidia 3d... which is checkerboard 3d.  I guess we can agree on one thing, we wont know until they actually release more data. 



 

  

The Only True Next Gen Game - Hero-U

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Robert A. Heinlein