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Forums - Gaming - Square-Enix CEO Calls Out Japanese Gamers on Western Bias!!!!

Guys come on. This is getting ridiculous. While I have a preference to Eastern Games, I cannot deny the amount of quality and quantity that Western devs have put out.

Assassin's Creed 3 in Japan???



Black Women Are The Most Beautiful Women On The Planet.

"In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games." - dtewi

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Kenryoku_Maxis said:
makingmusic476 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
makingmusic476 said:
outlawauron said:
It's entirely stupid as it happens both ways. Western gamers are xenophobic outside of the big, advertised games (Nintendo stuff, FF, etc.)

Eastern gamers are xenophobic outside of the big stuff (GTA, MW2, Halo, etc.)

I disagree.  In the West, or at least in North America, you have a large number of anime loving, game playing, Japan fans like us.  Western Otakus, if you will.  Our numbers are strong, and we can make even a game like Valkyria Chronicles sell somewhat decently (and it's still selling!).  In japan, you don't have a fringe group of Western gamers that'll eat up games like Call of Duty.  Heavily advertised Western games sell poorly, and games that aren't advertised are destined to not even reach 10k. 

A Japanese game still only sells well in the 'west' if it has advertising to back it up.  Look at such games as Dragon Quest IV and V, Muramasa: The Demon Blade or even Okami.  They didn't sell well, even with hype from the 'Anime obsessed JRPG loving underground'.

It works the same way in Japan.  Nearly all western released games in Japan aside from the highly published ones like Modern Warfare or GTAIV don't get any media or recognition, and see similar sales to the games I listed for the Japanese side.

Also you really should stop using the word Otaku.  It means something quite negative.

There are numerous Japanese franchise that hang with the best Western franchises in the West.  You have games like Final Fantasy selling 3 million in North America alone.  Don't even get me started on Gran Turismo or Pokemon.  Even Super Mario Sunshine on the GameCube of all systems managed 4 million in North America.  Meanwhile, the most advertised Western franchises don't come close to Japan's top sellers in Japan itself.  GTA: SA was the best selling Western game in Japan last gen, and it sold 410k.  Titles like Dragon Quest topped that by a factor of 8-10. Even smaller franchises like Devil may Cry beat it handedly.

And while many smaller Japanese titles don't recieve much recognition here in NA, you do have a few that manage a rather strong cult following, selling better than you'd expect.  Valkyria Chronicles being chief among these.  You don't hear any such success stories about niche Western games in Japan.

And...I agree with all of this.  I was mearly pointing out that both sides have games that sell well and do poorly based on market saturation.  And as I said in another post, Final Fantasy is an established franchise which sells well because of prolongued market exposure (aka, long-term marketing and installed fanbase).  Many of the games you're citing that did 'poorly' in Japan don't have this installed fanbase.  Japan doesn't have 3 million people waiting for the next Grand Theft Auto, God of War or Fallout title.  If the companies who make these titles want them to do good, they need to prepare to do some long term saturation of the Japanese market with some heavy advertising.  As Square did with Final Fantasy already and Nintendo did with Pokemon when it first came out in the west.

I wouldn't say market saturation has much to do with it.  Yeah, market saturation ensures a game's success, but the lack of market saturation doesn't inhibit a game's success.  Games like Monster Hunter became a phomenon in Japan in just a few years.  Same goes for Call of Duty in North America.  New IPs like Devil May Cry garnered decent success in both the East and West as of their first iteration.  Japanese games, old and new, don't really struggle in the West unless they are completely devoid of marketing.  Western titles, old and new (3D GTA has been around for nine years now), do fine in the West while they struggle in Japan just about every time.



loves2splooge said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
makingmusic476 said:

Even 410k for GTA is poor, given it's reception elsewhere.  And it doesn't compare to the 2+ million Final Fantasy pulls off in North America.

Final Fantasy is a 20 year established IP and the unquestioned 'most popular JRPG in America'.  And usually has a marketing budget to compare to Halo or GTAIV.

No western game released in Japan compares to a western released Final Fantasy game.  Especially now that SquareEnix relies on the western sales for the bulk of its sales for every Final Fantasy game.

The whole Final Fantasy thing is interesting because if you really think about it, from the mindset of someone living in say the early 90s, you would have never guessed that these games would become popular in the west one day. My early impression of these games as a kid in the early 90s (I didn't even know they were called rpgs until FF7 came along) was negative (I thought turn-based combat and random battles were stupid and pointless. Funny how the Final Fantasy hype machine later on and all my peers talking about how awesome FF7 was changed my perspective. lol). From that perspective, I would have never guessed that a game like this would be popular one day. But somehow, Sony (publisher of game in the west) did it. They were able to sell a game with the same archaic combat that I thought was boring in the early 90s (turn-based, random battles) by selling the cinematic experience of the game, making a huge marketing push with MTV and what not. And we ate it up. It's really hard to believe that it happened.

So considering the FF case, maybe if western games were given a similar push, you might the Japanese warming up to western games, maybe even a FPS game (a genre that is thought to be unmarketable in Japan just like jrpgs were supposedly unmarketable in the west)

Final Fantasy wasn't even very popular until they gave it a 100 million dollar marketing campaign for FF7, then all kinds of RPGs were selling in the west after that.  I kinda wonder if anyone has ever tried something like that in Japan. 



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

makingmusic476 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:

And...I agree with all of this.  I was mearly pointing out that both sides have games that sell well and do poorly based on market saturation.  And as I said in another post, Final Fantasy is an established franchise which sells well because of prolongued market exposure (aka, long-term marketing and installed fanbase).  Many of the games you're citing that did 'poorly' in Japan don't have this installed fanbase.  Japan doesn't have 3 million people waiting for the next Grand Theft Auto, God of War or Fallout title.  If the companies who make these titles want them to do good, they need to prepare to do some long term saturation of the Japanese market with some heavy advertising.  As Square did with Final Fantasy already and Nintendo did with Pokemon when it first came out in the west.

I wouldn't say market saturation has much to do with it.  Yeah, market saturation ensures a game's success, but the lack of market saturation doesn't inhibit a game's success.  Games like Monster Hunter became a phomenon in Japan in just a few years.  Same goes for Call of Duty in North America.  New IPs like Devil May Cry garnered decent success in both the East and West as of their first iteration.  Japanese games, old and new, don't really struggle in the West unless they are completely devoid of marketing.  Western titles, old and new (3D GTA has been around for nine years now), do fine in the West while they struggle in Japan just about every time.

But you just made all the points yourself to why market saturation is ultimately the goal.  For a 'new' IP to be successful, it requires marketing to do well.  And for a series to have long-term success, it requires market saturation to gain a fanbase.  Which requires continued marketing and hype.

So market saturation has a ton to do with why many of these western games aren't doing well.  Same with why some Japanese series aren't doing well, like Dragon Quest or Mana for SquareEnix.

Yes, there's always a few random examples of games that do well without marketing, like Disgaea in America or Metroid Prime in Japan.  But in the end, games need to push marketing and saturation to ultimately succeed.  Especially with all the barriers of a Japanese fanbase who is overlooking western games.

johnsobas said:

Final Fantasy wasn't even very popular until they gave it a 100 million dollar marketing campaign for FF7, then all kinds of RPGs were selling in the west after that.  I kinda wonder if anyone has ever tried something like that in Japan. 

Final Fantasy II and III (US) were mildly popular for their time.  They even put a lot of ads in Magazines and gave away free stuff to hype the game.  And the SNES FF games did a lot to hype established FF fans for FFVII before the advertising obsession.  But yeah, what made Final Fantasy explode to what it is today was that 'unprecedented' ad campaign for FFVII.  Which was the most expensive ad campaign for a game up to that time (and quite a time after).



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

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makingmusic476 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
makingmusic476 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
makingmusic476 said:
outlawauron said:
It's entirely stupid as it happens both ways. Western gamers are xenophobic outside of the big, advertised games (Nintendo stuff, FF, etc.)

Eastern gamers are xenophobic outside of the big stuff (GTA, MW2, Halo, etc.)

I disagree.  In the West, or at least in North America, you have a large number of anime loving, game playing, Japan fans like us.  Western Otakus, if you will.  Our numbers are strong, and we can make even a game like Valkyria Chronicles sell somewhat decently (and it's still selling!).  In japan, you don't have a fringe group of Western gamers that'll eat up games like Call of Duty.  Heavily advertised Western games sell poorly, and games that aren't advertised are destined to not even reach 10k. 

A Japanese game still only sells well in the 'west' if it has advertising to back it up.  Look at such games as Dragon Quest IV and V, Muramasa: The Demon Blade or even Okami.  They didn't sell well, even with hype from the 'Anime obsessed JRPG loving underground'.

It works the same way in Japan.  Nearly all western released games in Japan aside from the highly published ones like Modern Warfare or GTAIV don't get any media or recognition, and see similar sales to the games I listed for the Japanese side.

Also you really should stop using the word Otaku.  It means something quite negative.

There are numerous Japanese franchise that hang with the best Western franchises in the West.  You have games like Final Fantasy selling 3 million in North America alone.  Don't even get me started on Gran Turismo or Pokemon.  Even Super Mario Sunshine on the GameCube of all systems managed 4 million in North America.  Meanwhile, the most advertised Western franchises don't come close to Japan's top sellers in Japan itself.  GTA: SA was the best selling Western game in Japan last gen, and it sold 410k.  Titles like Dragon Quest topped that by a factor of 8-10. Even smaller franchises like Devil may Cry beat it handedly.

And while many smaller Japanese titles don't recieve much recognition here in NA, you do have a few that manage a rather strong cult following, selling better than you'd expect.  Valkyria Chronicles being chief among these.  You don't hear any such success stories about niche Western games in Japan.

And...I agree with all of this.  I was mearly pointing out that both sides have games that sell well and do poorly based on market saturation.  And as I said in another post, Final Fantasy is an established franchise which sells well because of prolongued market exposure (aka, long-term marketing and installed fanbase).  Many of the games you're citing that did 'poorly' in Japan don't have this installed fanbase.  Japan doesn't have 3 million people waiting for the next Grand Theft Auto, God of War or Fallout title.  If the companies who make these titles want them to do good, they need to prepare to do some long term saturation of the Japanese market with some heavy advertising.  As Square did with Final Fantasy already and Nintendo did with Pokemon when it first came out in the west.

I wouldn't say market saturation has much to do with it.  Yeah, market saturation ensures a game's success, but the lack of market saturation doesn't inhibit a game's success.  Games like Monster Hunter became a phomenon in Japan in just a few years.  Same goes for Call of Duty in North America.  New IPs like Devil May Cry garnered decent success in both the East and West as of their first iteration.  Japanese games, old and new, don't really struggle in the West unless they are completely devoid of marketing.  Western titles, old and new (3D GTA has been around for nine years now), do fine in the West while they struggle in Japan just about every time.

well considering the best selling HD game in Japan sold 700k, games like GTA and Call of Duty have done really well.  Halo, Resistance, Fable, Gears of War, Oblivion, most games that have a big budget have a market in Japan.  GTA and Call of Duty sales are right up there with games like Dynsasty Warriors 6, Tales of Vesperia, and Devil May Cry 4.  Yes they haven't reached the success of Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, or Monster hunter, but outside of Nintendo games very few games do at all. 



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

arcane_chaos said:
VyseLegend said:
arcane_chaos said:
Yeah! Damn those japanese with their ninjas,martial arts, anime, mangas, and their sexually akward shows!!! I will never buy a japanese game again!!!

well he is true, Japanses gamers should give western games a chance(just look a the 360), I was surprised to see uncharted 2 sell well there.

Whats a manga? Lol stupid weaboo.

::blasts some hip hop::


??? what's a weaboo?

Mangas are the equivalent of a comic book(or graphic novels for some people)

 

::blasts some Jrock::

A weeaboo is typically a white suburban youth in the west emulating wayyyy too much Eastern (specifically Japanese) culture. usually doing so by speaking a few key-words Japanese, listening to J-rock (pop rather) and read manga, while secretely masturbating to tentacle rape. They are generally what the Japanese refer to as an Egg. White outside, yellow inside.

 



The Doctor will see you now  Promoting Lesbianism -->

                              

I've never heard FPS having that massive footing in Japan. Maybe it's the wrong game. Maybe they should focus on something else.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

coolestguyever

" Western Games > Japanese Games.... GT5 (yeah its made in Japan, but for a mostly western audience),"


this is a classic.


Japanese like their racing as much as any other country.



 

 

wow. really. wow.

quality is subjective.

race is not.

don't mix these two things together please.

i'm american, but come on, there is no way the japanese are biased towards western games.
and american's are in no way biased towards eastern/japanese made games.

different cultures, different tastes is all it is.

if western developers want a significant share of the japanese market then they should ADAPT. Duhh!! Any company can do that.

Some of the best companies/developers in the world adapt to different cultures in order to cater to more audience. seriously?!? and all these Western games>Japanese games, vice versa are getting spewed out too like their facts...no just no....

Maybe japanese game makers need to borrow more western elements in order for their games to appeal more to western markets. Market them how people like it and it should sell! Maybe western game makers could do the same....



End of 2010 Predictions (Original Prediction Made: Jan. 1, 2010---Revised April 1, 2010---Revised Again July 1, 2010---Revised Again on Nov. 1, 2010)

PS3: 46 MIL (April Revision: 44 MIL, July Revision 43 MIL, Nov. Revision 45MIL)

360: 44 MIL (April Revision: 46 MIL, July Revision: 48 MIL, Nov. Revision 49MIL)

WII: 82 MIL (Apr. Revision: 84 MIL, Jul. Revision: 82 MIL, Nov. Revision: 82MIL)

THE MUST BUY LIST of 2010: Gran Turismo 5

THE BOUGHT LIST of 2010: White Knight Chrnociles, Heavy Rain, Final Fantasy 13, God of War 3, Modnation Racers, Sports Champions