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Forums - Microsoft - Datel suing Microsoft over Max Memory card lockout

ironman on 24 November 2009
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:

whatever, my point dont seem to come across to you anyway. Either way the firmware also blocks your ability to install games(stock feature) on your harddrive, so we can at least agree that what they are doing is illegal..

I was giving an example to dsister.  Even if a company(A) makes a product that change the way another company (B)'s product work doesnt mean company A have to pay company B to sell their product. I never talked about canceling any plan, i talked about removing the simcard block with a program i bought. The devolopers of that program doesnt pay the cellmanufacturer or the telecompany even if their product is meant to alter how the cell works.

Your point is nothing more than butthurt against MS...it didn't convey anything more than ignorance on the subject from your end. The firmware does not block the ability to install games on your stock HD. Besides, why would they do that? They just made that feature avalable not too long ago. Even if what you say were true, that would not negate the fact that you could throw a mod chip in your box and get that feature back. So we can at least agree that what they are doing falls well within the confines of any law.

Yes, but your whole premise was faulty BECAUSE once you talk about plans and cancelations, it puts perspective in to the mix...and that definatly wreaks havok on your argument. And even foregoing the cancelation and early termination fees, The argument fails because you are aquating a program to a mod chip...well guess what, neither one is illegal by any stretch of the imagination. It's when you flash your mod chip with a reworked copy of the MS firmware that you perform an illegal act. Your whole argument is based on the premise that a mod chip is illegal, and it's not.

bolder:not in my country. i am saying that modding is perfectly legal and that releasing a firmware that disrupt how i use my product is not MS's right.

What they are doing is not something that falls well within the confines of any law as they ARE  likely to get hit with a fine here in Norway. I'll post the link again if its in any interest to you http://www.vg.no/spill/artikkel.php?artid=580732.  I never talked about  cancelations, i talked about removing the simcard block. Simcard block=/= cancelation.

So be it, but if you go on XBL with a modded 360 in your country, you are still violating the terms of use and will therfore be banned from using XBL. Anyway, you can still use your product any way you like. Nobody is saying otherwise. If you want to use a memory card that holds more memory, you are free to mod your console to do so, MS isn't stopping you.

For the aformentioned reason, MS is well within the confines of Norweigan law.

again missing the point. Yes they have the right to ban you from xboxlive. However the firmware also removes stockfeatures( if you have a modded console) .That is not well within the confines of Norwegian law. And thus they ARE as we speak under investigation for breaking the law.

No, the firmware regulates the stock features, MS didn't know that people would be exploiting a feature that was never meant to be exploited. MS never advertised that you could use a larger memory card, and you can still use third party memory cards if they are the same size as MS ones. so no, no klaw has been broken, just because MS is under investigation, does not mean they are guilty. Oh hey, you do have the choice to deny the firmware update.



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Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

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Monges79 on 24 November 2009

I'm sure Microsoft has a couple of good lawyers too. Walmart got sued too and they're doing terrible. Small potatoes.



masterb8tr on 24 November 2009
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:

whatever, my point dont seem to come across to you anyway. Either way the firmware also blocks your ability to install games(stock feature) on your harddrive, so we can at least agree that what they are doing is illegal..

I was giving an example to dsister.  Even if a company(A) makes a product that change the way another company (B)'s product work doesnt mean company A have to pay company B to sell their product. I never talked about canceling any plan, i talked about removing the simcard block with a program i bought. The devolopers of that program doesnt pay the cellmanufacturer or the telecompany even if their product is meant to alter how the cell works.

Your point is nothing more than butthurt against MS...it didn't convey anything more than ignorance on the subject from your end. The firmware does not block the ability to install games on your stock HD. Besides, why would they do that? They just made that feature avalable not too long ago. Even if what you say were true, that would not negate the fact that you could throw a mod chip in your box and get that feature back. So we can at least agree that what they are doing falls well within the confines of any law.

Yes, but your whole premise was faulty BECAUSE once you talk about plans and cancelations, it puts perspective in to the mix...and that definatly wreaks havok on your argument. And even foregoing the cancelation and early termination fees, The argument fails because you are aquating a program to a mod chip...well guess what, neither one is illegal by any stretch of the imagination. It's when you flash your mod chip with a reworked copy of the MS firmware that you perform an illegal act. Your whole argument is based on the premise that a mod chip is illegal, and it's not.

bolder:not in my country. i am saying that modding is perfectly legal and that releasing a firmware that disrupt how i use my product is not MS's right.

What they are doing is not something that falls well within the confines of any law as they ARE  likely to get hit with a fine here in Norway. I'll post the link again if its in any interest to you http://www.vg.no/spill/artikkel.php?artid=580732.  I never talked about  cancelations, i talked about removing the simcard block. Simcard block=/= cancelation.

So be it, but if you go on XBL with a modded 360 in your country, you are still violating the terms of use and will therfore be banned from using XBL. Anyway, you can still use your product any way you like. Nobody is saying otherwise. If you want to use a memory card that holds more memory, you are free to mod your console to do so, MS isn't stopping you.

For the aformentioned reason, MS is well within the confines of Norweigan law.

again missing the point. Yes they have the right to ban you from xboxlive. However the firmware also removes stockfeatures( if you have a modded console) .That is not well within the confines of Norwegian law. And thus they ARE as we speak under investigation for breaking the law.

No, the firmware removes the stock features, MS didn't know that people would be exploiting a feature that was never meant to be exploited. MS never advertised that you could use a larger memory card, and you can still use third party memory cards if they are the same size as MS ones. so no, no klaw has been broken, just because MS is under investigation, does not mean they are guilty. Oh hey, you do have the choice to deny the firmware update.

this is the part that is most likely illegal. Lol it would be so much easier to explain if you knew norwegian:p And yes they havent been found guilty yet:P but they most likely will, if the "investigators" statements are anything to go by.



masterb8tr on 24 November 2009

what happened to my post:p?



ironman on 24 November 2009
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:

whatever, my point dont seem to come across to you anyway. Either way the firmware also blocks your ability to install games(stock feature) on your harddrive, so we can at least agree that what they are doing is illegal..

I was giving an example to dsister.  Even if a company(A) makes a product that change the way another company (B)'s product work doesnt mean company A have to pay company B to sell their product. I never talked about canceling any plan, i talked about removing the simcard block with a program i bought. The devolopers of that program doesnt pay the cellmanufacturer or the telecompany even if their product is meant to alter how the cell works.

Your point is nothing more than butthurt against MS...it didn't convey anything more than ignorance on the subject from your end. The firmware does not block the ability to install games on your stock HD. Besides, why would they do that? They just made that feature avalable not too long ago. Even if what you say were true, that would not negate the fact that you could throw a mod chip in your box and get that feature back. So we can at least agree that what they are doing falls well within the confines of any law.

Yes, but your whole premise was faulty BECAUSE once you talk about plans and cancelations, it puts perspective in to the mix...and that definatly wreaks havok on your argument. And even foregoing the cancelation and early termination fees, The argument fails because you are aquating a program to a mod chip...well guess what, neither one is illegal by any stretch of the imagination. It's when you flash your mod chip with a reworked copy of the MS firmware that you perform an illegal act. Your whole argument is based on the premise that a mod chip is illegal, and it's not.

bolder:not in my country. i am saying that modding is perfectly legal and that releasing a firmware that disrupt how i use my product is not MS's right.

What they are doing is not something that falls well within the confines of any law as they ARE  likely to get hit with a fine here in Norway. I'll post the link again if its in any interest to you http://www.vg.no/spill/artikkel.php?artid=580732.  I never talked about  cancelations, i talked about removing the simcard block. Simcard block=/= cancelation.

So be it, but if you go on XBL with a modded 360 in your country, you are still violating the terms of use and will therfore be banned from using XBL. Anyway, you can still use your product any way you like. Nobody is saying otherwise. If you want to use a memory card that holds more memory, you are free to mod your console to do so, MS isn't stopping you.

For the aformentioned reason, MS is well within the confines of Norweigan law.

again missing the point. Yes they have the right to ban you from xboxlive. However the firmware also removes stockfeatures( if you have a modded console) .That is not well within the confines of Norwegian law. And thus they ARE as we speak under investigation for breaking the law.

No, the firmware removes the stock features, MS didn't know that people would be exploiting a feature that was never meant to be exploited. MS never advertised that you could use a larger memory card, and you can still use third party memory cards if they are the same size as MS ones. so no, no klaw has been broken, just because MS is under investigation, does not mean they are guilty. Oh hey, you do have the choice to deny the firmware update.

this is the part that is most likely illegal. Lol it would be so much easier to explain if you knew norwegian:p And yes they havent been found guilty yet:P but they most likely will, if the "investigators" statements are anything to go by.

Can you give me a link to the law they are breaking? Because it is a screwed up law if what you are saying is true (and I suspect MS is still within the confines of it)

Anyway, typos happen, don't hold it against me *cries*



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

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masterb8tr on 24 November 2009
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:
ironman said:
masterb8tr said:

whatever, my point dont seem to come across to you anyway. Either way the firmware also blocks your ability to install games(stock feature) on your harddrive, so we can at least agree that what they are doing is illegal..

I was giving an example to dsister.  Even if a company(A) makes a product that change the way another company (B)'s product work doesnt mean company A have to pay company B to sell their product. I never talked about canceling any plan, i talked about removing the simcard block with a program i bought. The devolopers of that program doesnt pay the cellmanufacturer or the telecompany even if their product is meant to alter how the cell works.

Your point is nothing more than butthurt against MS...it didn't convey anything more than ignorance on the subject from your end. The firmware does not block the ability to install games on your stock HD. Besides, why would they do that? They just made that feature avalable not too long ago. Even if what you say were true, that would not negate the fact that you could throw a mod chip in your box and get that feature back. So we can at least agree that what they are doing falls well within the confines of any law.

Yes, but your whole premise was faulty BECAUSE once you talk about plans and cancelations, it puts perspective in to the mix...and that definatly wreaks havok on your argument. And even foregoing the cancelation and early termination fees, The argument fails because you are aquating a program to a mod chip...well guess what, neither one is illegal by any stretch of the imagination. It's when you flash your mod chip with a reworked copy of the MS firmware that you perform an illegal act. Your whole argument is based on the premise that a mod chip is illegal, and it's not.

bolder:not in my country. i am saying that modding is perfectly legal and that releasing a firmware that disrupt how i use my product is not MS's right.

What they are doing is not something that falls well within the confines of any law as they ARE  likely to get hit with a fine here in Norway. I'll post the link again if its in any interest to you http://www.vg.no/spill/artikkel.php?artid=580732.  I never talked about  cancelations, i talked about removing the simcard block. Simcard block=/= cancelation.

So be it, but if you go on XBL with a modded 360 in your country, you are still violating the terms of use and will therfore be banned from using XBL. Anyway, you can still use your product any way you like. Nobody is saying otherwise. If you want to use a memory card that holds more memory, you are free to mod your console to do so, MS isn't stopping you.

For the aformentioned reason, MS is well within the confines of Norweigan law.

again missing the point. Yes they have the right to ban you from xboxlive. However the firmware also removes stockfeatures( if you have a modded console) .That is not well within the confines of Norwegian law. And thus they ARE as we speak under investigation for breaking the law.

No, the firmware removes the stock features, MS didn't know that people would be exploiting a feature that was never meant to be exploited. MS never advertised that you could use a larger memory card, and you can still use third party memory cards if they are the same size as MS ones. so no, no klaw has been broken, just because MS is under investigation, does not mean they are guilty. Oh hey, you do have the choice to deny the firmware update.

this is the part that is most likely illegal. Lol it would be so much easier to explain if you knew norwegian:p And yes they havent been found guilty yet:P but they most likely will, if the "investigators" statements are anything to go by.

Can you give me a link to the law they are breaking? Because it is a screwed up law if what you are saying is true (and I suspect MS is still within the confines of it)

Anyway, typos happen, don't hold it against me *cries*

hehe "forbrukerkjøpsloven" and "avtaleloven", let me guess that didnt help did it:p? Anyway, they are not convicted yet:P so we will just have to wait and see:P. And even if they are, the fine would be by no means a threat to MS:p



twesterm on 24 November 2009
masterb8tr said:
twesterm said:
masterb8tr said:
 

whatever, my point dont seem to come across to you anyway. Either way the firmware also blocks your ability to install games(stock feature) on your harddrive, so we can at least agree that what they are doing is illegal..

 

So you've resorted to making things up then?

here you go:):):) 

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoleban

read it and weep.

Ah, didn't realize you were talking banned consoles.  In that case-- sucks to be them.

Again, if you can't do the time don't do the crime. 

I know, I know, it's not illegal in your country blah blah blah blah I don't care.  It's against the terms of use, it's Microsoft's console, and it's Microsoft's network.  There's really nothing else to it.

Don't be a douche pirate and you don't have to worry about it.



 

twesterm on 24 November 2009

And just to reiterate-- as much as some people may wish it, the people at MS are not morons.

Just like I'm sure MS had their lawyers making sure what they did was legal in America, I'm sure they looked into international law too.  Norweighen law may be a mystery to me, but probably not so much Microsoft.



 

Damnyouall on 25 November 2009

Back on topic:

Damnyouall said:
Apparently logical thinking isn't everyone's strong suit.
Imagine you could only use a special licensed stereo in your car, pre-approved by the maker of your car. Or special licensed gas. Or special licensed tires. Or windshield wipers. Would you call bullshit? Yes you would.
Reality check: This is the same. Only because console makers have been doing it for 20 years in order to to maximize profits or to subsidize consoles sold at dumping prices, that doesn't make it right. I applaud their highly successful brainwashing.

This is really the same thing the makers of printers are trying to do (keep other companies from selling ink or toner cartridges for their devices, for instance by using special lock-out chips). Of course they failed with this; it's perfectly legal for other companies to manufacture and sell ink/toner cartridges.



"Well certainly with the Xbox 360, we had some challenges at the launch. Once we identified that we took control of it. We wanted to do it right by our customers. Our customers are very important to us." -Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb (10/2013). Note: RRoD was fixed with the Jasper-revision 3 years after the launch of 360

"People don't pay attention to a lot of the details."-Yusuf Mehdi explaining why Xbone DRM scheme would succeed

"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360,”-Don Mattrick

"The region locking of the 3DS wasn't done for profits on games"-MDMAlliance

Reasonable on 25 November 2009
twesterm said:

And just to reiterate-- as much as some people may wish it, the people at MS are not morons.

Just like I'm sure MS had their lawyers making sure what they did was legal in America, I'm sure they looked into international law too.  Norweighen law may be a mystery to me, but probably not so much Microsoft.

You're right, and also wrong - in as much as plenty of large US centric corporations like MS (and I work for one myself) regularly fall foul of European laws whether for employment, trading infringements or whatever.

The issue always seems to be the lawyers, etc. are in place but corporate decisions are often made US centric or before checking with every single local law team, with the result that they can get caught short - as MS itself knows with its years of hefty fines in Europe.

In the end the fact is that there is no guarantee how different regions might decide.  In US a court might find for MS, while in Europe the opposite could happen.

I do know, at least so far as my company is concerned, they hate European laws and even with billions and billions of dollars of revenue and lots of lawyers, etc. they still get caught by local legal decisions.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...