So the responce to the vile and hateful sections of the Quran (which states numerous times that those who do not worship Allah are dispicable creatures who deserve to burn in hell for all eternity and who must be fought against) is that there are also nice things in the book?

8- 39 - And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.

is ok because it also says there are some good christians? (wich is a contradiction if you have to fight till all religion is for Allah)

4-56 Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise. (56)

Is ok because it only says what those who don't believe deserve to be burned, as opposed to specific instructions for what to do to them?

98-6 - Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings

Is ok, because there's nothing wrong with saying people who don't follow your relegion are the worst of created beings (as opposed to, I don't know, pedophiles or those who would kill innocent people based on a thousand year old holy book?)

5-33/34 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; (33) Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (34)

Is ok because that's only upon those who fight against muslims? So Kaz, are you saying you think the Taliban would be justified in crucifying or cutting off the hands and feet of any american soldiers they catch?

8 -12/17 When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. (12) That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment. (13) That (is the award), so taste it, and (know) that for disbelievers is the torment of the Fire. (14) O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (15) Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end. (16) Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower. (17)

is ok because it talks about waring against those that don't believe your religion?

Kaz, why is it than when I quote the Quran of it's vileness, you try to excuse the mess by saying I'm just not reading it right, but when someone says "well we can forgive the awful stuff because there's some good stuff to" you say "well now we have actual Quran quotes!"

The fact that it says nice things has no bearing at all on the fact that it suggests non muslims are pretty much non people that deserve to die and rot in hell. That you will meet in battle and crucify.

This was a book written in a time before the concept of Universal human rights, by a specific group of people, meant for that group of people to help them overcome other groups of people. It is not in any way a proper source for morality. But so very few holy books are.

As for Mr. Stickball's assertion that the current state of world affairs suggests that Christianity is inherently more peaceful than Islam. I'd suggest it more accurately points out that it is the Islamic world that is currently being ruled by it's religion. There was a time when the Christianity ruled it's part of the world too. We called it the dark ages. And fortunately for us, the part of the world that was Muslim was in a time of englightenment, and kept the ancient greek knowledge alive for us while we were slaughtering eachother in the name of God.

Who said that!? I'm not talking about the people, I'm talking about the book (I have muslim friends too, though I don't see what that has to do with anything) The Quran is a book. Why should a book be above analysis? Well, perhaps because if your  a Danish Cartoonist, a Canadian Muslim journalist, a British Novelist or a Dutch film maker,  it might cause threats against your life or even murder. But aside from that. Why must "respect for religion" constitute refusing to acknowledge anything negative about what the founding documents say?

Here are some of the horrid things the old testament says. Does that acknowledgement make me a christiaphobe or anti semetic? 

About my statement, the only person who has displayed that view in this thread was CommunistHater. I did acutally think that you were an islamophobe at first, but you were just analyzing the book. I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Plus, I was mostly speaking from my real-life (outside of forum, I guess I'm saying) experience. I've actually met people that think Islam is all about murder and war.

I totally agree with you that no book is above analysis. Also, I don't have "respect for any religion" (although I do respect that people are free to believe in whatever they want), I don't know if you were using the quotes to imply that I said that.

i have a friend whos muslim but its osmeitmes a bit sad to see how he always htinks all jews are terrible and hsould be killed and always vermantly denies thing like evoloution,i dont want to argue with him cos then i think ill lose the friendship

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8366197.stm
these htings annoy me how of ocurse becuase their muslims ,other people have to put up with their sharia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8284958.stm

That's cool Ultima. I share your notion that I respect peoples right to believe, though the nature of their belief should not be exempt from analysis. As for Communist hater. he's VG chartz's resident clown. attempting to respond to his posts constitute troll feeding of the nastiest kind. Just ignore. The forum will be better for it.

I think that mostly has to do with the countries being undeveloped, not with it being attached to a religion. For example, stuff like that doesn't really happen in UAE.

Your right. But part of that reason is that in underdeveloped countries, religious organizations are more able to assert their power. As for UAE, it should be noted that while they are considered relatively open to other peoples beliefs, it is illegal to spread the ideas of any religion other than Islam. That's a law we would consider abominable in a western country.

I didn't know that, but I guess it's logical since they're an Islamic Republic. I still think that's ridiculous, religion should have no influence over the government, we're not in middle ages anymore. But they're a rich and developed country, so most people aren't oppressed into breaking law and organizing religious cults, like people in some African and Middle Eastern countries are.

well said