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Forums - Gaming - Blog post ''Square Enix Have Destroyed Final Fantasy Tradition''

pastro243 on 13 November 2009
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
dystopia said:
@Riachu: A shell of it's former self. The lack of Sakaguchi's influence and the increased influence of Nomura has changed the atmosphere of the games. FFX was mired with annoying characters and a predictable linear story, and while it was visually great, had good combat and character development systems, etc, it just didn't 'feel' like it's predecessors. FFXII suffers similar problems, the story is to detached, the combat is less then steller, and once again the story was predictable and just not very enjoyable. I miss what FF use to be.

Well thankfully it looks like Final Fantasy Gaiden for DS, made by a totally independent team not connected to Nomura, is trying to kind of revive  to 'old' Final Fantasy style.  But yes, on the whole, Final Fantasy is nowhere near what it use to be.  Though in some ways, that's good, as the entire point of the series was to constantly push the envelope and evolve.  That's how it set itself apart from its competition initially (from series such as Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star) and remain in its current position.  But along the way, it did seem to focus so much on graphics and storyline that it forgot about allowing the player to, you know....play the game and have fun. 

I think FFX and XII, while having very unique and engaging battle engines, were also some of the most dialogue heavy RPGs out there.  Aside from probably Final Fantasy Tactics and Suikoden V (that's 3 out of 4 being FF games).


I dont see whats wrong with dialogues and cutscenes, they add to the games story and its atmosphere, playing a FF or any RPG without dialogue to explain the story and develop it would be pretty bad for me. It seems like people would love to make FF into mario or DQ, when being like it is is what has given it succes and made fans buy the game in the last years.



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dystopia on 13 November 2009
Riachu said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
dystopia said:
@Riachu: A shell of it's former self. The lack of Sakaguchi's influence and the increased influence of Nomura has changed the atmosphere of the games. FFX was mired with annoying characters and a predictable linear story, and while it was visually great, had good combat and character development systems, etc, it just didn't 'feel' like it's predecessors. FFXII suffers similar problems, the story is to detached, the combat is less then steller, and once again the story was predictable and just not very enjoyable. I miss what FF use to be.

Well thankfully it looks like Final Fantasy Gaiden for DS, made by a totally independent team not connected to Nomura, is trying to kind of revive  to 'old' Final Fantasy style.  But yes, on the whole, Final Fantasy is nowhere near what it use to be.  Though in some ways, that's good, as the entire point of the series was to constantly push the envelope and evolve.  That's how it set itself apart from its competition initially (from series such as Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star) and remain in its current position.  But along the way, it did seem to focus so much on graphics and storyline that it forgot about allowing the player to, you know....play the game and have fun. 

I think FFX and XII, while having very unique and engaging battle engines, were also some of the most dialogue heavy RPGs out there.  Aside from probably Final Fantasy Tactics and Suikoden V (that's 3 out of 4 being FF games).

did xenogears and xenosaga suddenly stopped existing?

I forgot to mention Persona 4.  One part of the game(the events of december 3rd and right after) had a 45 minute cutscene followed by a save point followed by another 45 minute cutscene

The amount of dialog has never been the problem with the last few entries into the FF franchise, it's just they did a massive shift from what the SNES and PS1 era games were. The games are MUCH more linear and Nomura's increasing influence on the characters has just changed the atmosphere. The thing is, if I'm playing a SNES era FF or a PS1 era FF they both have similar atmosphere, style, and direction, and the PS2 era games just don't feel the same.

As a side note, Xenogears doesn't suffer from the dialog, the story is one of the strongest in any game ever.



Riachu on 13 November 2009
pastro243 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
dystopia said:
@Riachu: A shell of it's former self. The lack of Sakaguchi's influence and the increased influence of Nomura has changed the atmosphere of the games. FFX was mired with annoying characters and a predictable linear story, and while it was visually great, had good combat and character development systems, etc, it just didn't 'feel' like it's predecessors. FFXII suffers similar problems, the story is to detached, the combat is less then steller, and once again the story was predictable and just not very enjoyable. I miss what FF use to be.

Well thankfully it looks like Final Fantasy Gaiden for DS, made by a totally independent team not connected to Nomura, is trying to kind of revive  to 'old' Final Fantasy style.  But yes, on the whole, Final Fantasy is nowhere near what it use to be.  Though in some ways, that's good, as the entire point of the series was to constantly push the envelope and evolve.  That's how it set itself apart from its competition initially (from series such as Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star) and remain in its current position.  But along the way, it did seem to focus so much on graphics and storyline that it forgot about allowing the player to, you know....play the game and have fun. 

I think FFX and XII, while having very unique and engaging battle engines, were also some of the most dialogue heavy RPGs out there.  Aside from probably Final Fantasy Tactics and Suikoden V (that's 3 out of 4 being FF games).


I dont see whats wrong with dialogues and cutscenes, they add to the games story and its atmosphere, playing a FF or any RPG without dialogue to explain the story and develop it would be pretty bad for me. It seems like people would love to make FF into mario or DQ, when being like it is is what has given it succes and made fans buy the game in the last years.

I thought FF's usage of cutscenes has been good.  Can't say the same for Xenosaga though with its self indulgent story.



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

Kenryoku_Maxis on 13 November 2009
pastro243 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
pastro243 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Just goes to prove my point. SquareEnix can screw over all their other franchises. But the only time people actually step up and start caring is when anything is changed or left out of a Final Fantasy game.

There is no other SE franchise that matters more than FF.

Its that mentality that's killing all the other franchises in SE.  When people only care about FF.

And in this case, just one song was changed.  Whereas in other games, entire games content was altered from names being changed to half the dialogue missing.

Simply saying 'it doesn't matter unless it happens to Final Fantasy' is no excuse.  It gives them a reason to keep doing it UNTIL they start doing it to Final Fantasy.

Let me say it like this: why should I care if they change games I dont play? I care about FF because FF is the game I will be playing, and a lot of people will be playing it too and they care.

OT: the song sucks, I hate these singers and their stuff. Out of all the artists they couldve chosen they chose this typical pop/R&B singer, anyways I never liked the inclusion of non orchestal songs in these games, but kiss me goodbye was better than this, but like I said, the orchestal OST is really good so it doesnt matter a lot to me.

 

Let me repeat myself.

Simply saying 'it doesn't matter unless it happens to Final Fantasy' is no excuse.  It gives them a reason to keep doing it UNTIL they start doing it to Final Fantasy.

Which they are doing now.  Oh, and have been doing.  Most people just didn't care because they grew up with stuff like 'spoony bard' and 'whatever' and think they're canon.  When they're completely altered from the Japanese version.

Ignorance makes for tollerance.

Also, I said quite clearly that FF developed its style of storyline and graphics to set itself apart from other RPGs.  But I was mearly pointing out that the recent titles have been focusing too much on the storyline and graphics without having much control in gameplay.  Literally, there's probably about a 50% gameplay and 50% 'storyline/cutscene/other' ratio in the PSX/PS2 FF games.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

Riachu on 13 November 2009
dystopia said:
Riachu said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
dystopia said:
@Riachu: A shell of it's former self. The lack of Sakaguchi's influence and the increased influence of Nomura has changed the atmosphere of the games. FFX was mired with annoying characters and a predictable linear story, and while it was visually great, had good combat and character development systems, etc, it just didn't 'feel' like it's predecessors. FFXII suffers similar problems, the story is to detached, the combat is less then steller, and once again the story was predictable and just not very enjoyable. I miss what FF use to be.

Well thankfully it looks like Final Fantasy Gaiden for DS, made by a totally independent team not connected to Nomura, is trying to kind of revive  to 'old' Final Fantasy style.  But yes, on the whole, Final Fantasy is nowhere near what it use to be.  Though in some ways, that's good, as the entire point of the series was to constantly push the envelope and evolve.  That's how it set itself apart from its competition initially (from series such as Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star) and remain in its current position.  But along the way, it did seem to focus so much on graphics and storyline that it forgot about allowing the player to, you know....play the game and have fun. 

I think FFX and XII, while having very unique and engaging battle engines, were also some of the most dialogue heavy RPGs out there.  Aside from probably Final Fantasy Tactics and Suikoden V (that's 3 out of 4 being FF games).

did xenogears and xenosaga suddenly stopped existing?

I forgot to mention Persona 4.  One part of the game(the events of december 3rd and right after) had a 45 minute cutscene followed by a save point followed by another 45 minute cutscene

The amount of dialog has never been the problem with the last few entries into the FF franchise, it's just they did a massive shift from what the SNES and PS1 era games were. The games are MUCH more linear and Nomura's increasing influence on the characters has just changed the atmosphere. The thing is, if I'm playing a SNES era FF or a PS1 era FF they both have similar atmosphere, style, and direction, and the PS2 era games just don't feel the same.

As a side note, Xenogears doesn't suffer from the dialog, the story is one of the strongest in any game ever.

I know that.  Xenogears has a reputation for having a very complex, thought provoking story.  I heard it starts good and only gets better(including the infamous disk 2).  People do have issues with Xenosaga though.



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

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pastro243 on 13 November 2009
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
pastro243 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
pastro243 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Just goes to prove my point. SquareEnix can screw over all their other franchises. But the only time people actually step up and start caring is when anything is changed or left out of a Final Fantasy game.

There is no other SE franchise that matters more than FF.

Its that mentality that's killing all the other franchises in SE.  When people only care about FF.

And in this case, just one song was changed.  Whereas in other games, entire games content was altered from names being changed to half the dialogue missing.

Simply saying 'it doesn't matter unless it happens to Final Fantasy' is no excuse.  It gives them a reason to keep doing it UNTIL they start doing it to Final Fantasy.

Let me say it like this: why should I care if they change games I dont play? I care about FF because FF is the game I will be playing, and a lot of people will be playing it too and they care.

OT: the song sucks, I hate these singers and their stuff. Out of all the artists they couldve chosen they chose this typical pop/R&B singer, anyways I never liked the inclusion of non orchestal songs in these games, but kiss me goodbye was better than this, but like I said, the orchestal OST is really good so it doesnt matter a lot to me.

 

Let me repeat myself.

Simply saying 'it doesn't matter unless it happens to Final Fantasy' is no excuse.  It gives them a reason to keep doing it UNTIL they start doing it to Final Fantasy.

Which they are doing now.  Oh, and have been doing.  Most people just didn't care because they grew up with stuff like 'spoony bard' and 'whatever' and think they're canon.  When they're completely altered from the Japanese version.

Ignorance makes for tollerance.

I didnt say it didnt matter, I said I dont care, and of course I dont care when I dont even play those games, from SE I just play FF and KH, and I just care if they change those.



- Our album on spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/56mEbEgyBYGzcDyZ1eMQ1v?si=hYKgir5YRSCrzywgGmV4oQ

- Our videoclip 

- My manga: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/blanca-the-world/list?title_no=313068

dystopia on 13 November 2009

@Riachu: Xenogears is amazing, the entire thing. To stay on subject though, really I think since the Square-Enix merger things have gone down hill with a lot of their franchises, not just Final Fantasy.



themanwithnoname on 13 November 2009

They already destroyed tradition by releasing it on two platforms.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

dystopia on 13 November 2009

@themanwithnoname: that doesn't make any sense, Final Fantasy has graced many consoles before.



pastro243 on 13 November 2009
Riachu said:
pastro243 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
dystopia said:
@Riachu: A shell of it's former self. The lack of Sakaguchi's influence and the increased influence of Nomura has changed the atmosphere of the games. FFX was mired with annoying characters and a predictable linear story, and while it was visually great, had good combat and character development systems, etc, it just didn't 'feel' like it's predecessors. FFXII suffers similar problems, the story is to detached, the combat is less then steller, and once again the story was predictable and just not very enjoyable. I miss what FF use to be.

Well thankfully it looks like Final Fantasy Gaiden for DS, made by a totally independent team not connected to Nomura, is trying to kind of revive  to 'old' Final Fantasy style.  But yes, on the whole, Final Fantasy is nowhere near what it use to be.  Though in some ways, that's good, as the entire point of the series was to constantly push the envelope and evolve.  That's how it set itself apart from its competition initially (from series such as Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star) and remain in its current position.  But along the way, it did seem to focus so much on graphics and storyline that it forgot about allowing the player to, you know....play the game and have fun. 

I think FFX and XII, while having very unique and engaging battle engines, were also some of the most dialogue heavy RPGs out there.  Aside from probably Final Fantasy Tactics and Suikoden V (that's 3 out of 4 being FF games).


I dont see whats wrong with dialogues and cutscenes, they add to the games story and its atmosphere, playing a FF or any RPG without dialogue to explain the story and develop it would be pretty bad for me. It seems like people would love to make FF into mario or DQ, when being like it is is what has given it succes and made fans buy the game in the last years.

I thought FF's usage of cutscenes has been good.  Can't say the same for Xenosaga though with its self indulgent story.


It has, but it seems some people here dont like them.



- Our album on spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/56mEbEgyBYGzcDyZ1eMQ1v?si=hYKgir5YRSCrzywgGmV4oQ

- Our videoclip 

- My manga: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/blanca-the-world/list?title_no=313068