By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Sony gets a class action

Sorcery said:
twesterm said:

All I have to say is have fun proving it was Sony's fault and not a coincidence because that's what they have to do.  They're the ones with the burden of proof.

I guess we all better start videotaping our TV's when we install new firmware.

That's just the way things are.  If you're going to sue someone you're the one that has to prove the other party is in the wrong, not the other way around.  Unless they can actually prove the update bricked their console, they're fucked.  Considering how small the percentage of people that had their consoles bricked, I'm going to guess it really was coincedence and common sense would tell any judege the same thing.

damndl0ser said:
It shouldn't be to hard proving that the update killed their system. I would imagine anyone who repairs these consoles could detect if its a firmware (basically bios) flash error or not.

Do you actually know this or are you just guessing?  I'm guessing you're guessing...



Around the Network
twesterm said:
Sorcery said:
twesterm said:

All I have to say is have fun proving it was Sony's fault and not a coincidence because that's what they have to do.  They're the ones with the burden of proof.

I guess we all better start videotaping our TV's when we install new firmware.

That's just the way things are.  If you're going to sue someone you're the one that has to prove the other party is in the wrong, not the other way around.  Unless they can actually prove the update bricked their console, they're fucked.  Considering how small the percentage of people that had their consoles bricked, I'm going to guess it really was coincedence and common sense would tell any judege the same thing.

damndl0ser said:
It shouldn't be to hard proving that the update killed their system. I would imagine anyone who repairs these consoles could detect if its a firmware (basically bios) flash error or not.

Do you actually know this or are you just guessing?  I'm guessing you're guessing...

While I do not repair any type of console, I do work on electronic circuit boards and computers every day (gas pump dispensers).  There are codes for everything in those that tell you what the problem is and all you have to do is know what the error # is to get an idea what your problem is.  I would be willing to bet the PS3 has something similar.   It makes a tech repairman's life much easier.

 

Even without the error codes you can track everything down with a basic knowledge of the system and an ohm meter. It just might take forever.  So there are ways of knowing what has happend and why it has happend.  This would be just an experts opinion and I am sure Sony can produce people who disagree.  I guess its just which expert the jury believes most.



"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."

Quote by- The Imortal John Wayne, the original BADASS!

 

 

 

damndl0ser said:
twesterm said:
Sorcery said:
twesterm said:

All I have to say is have fun proving it was Sony's fault and not a coincidence because that's what they have to do.  They're the ones with the burden of proof.

I guess we all better start videotaping our TV's when we install new firmware.

That's just the way things are.  If you're going to sue someone you're the one that has to prove the other party is in the wrong, not the other way around.  Unless they can actually prove the update bricked their console, they're fucked.  Considering how small the percentage of people that had their consoles bricked, I'm going to guess it really was coincedence and common sense would tell any judege the same thing.

damndl0ser said:
It shouldn't be to hard proving that the update killed their system. I would imagine anyone who repairs these consoles could detect if its a firmware (basically bios) flash error or not.

Do you actually know this or are you just guessing?  I'm guessing you're guessing...

While I do not repair any type of console, I do work on electronic circuit boards and computers every day (gas pump dispensers).  There are codes for everything in those that tell you what the problem is and all you have to do is know what the error # is to get an idea what your problem is.  I would be willing to bet the PS3 has something similar.   It makes a tech repairman's life much easier.

 

Even without the error codes you can track everything down with a basic knowledge of the system and an ohm meter. It just might take forever.  So there are ways of knowing what has happend and why it has happend.  This would be just an experts opinion and I am sure Sony can produce people who disagree.  I guess its just which expert the jury believes most.

Yeah, but I don't think there would be an error code that tells you the firmware was the cause for trouble.  I'm sure you could tell the firmware was installed and there is an error code, but any number of things can cause your PS3 to break. 

How do you prove the update was one of those things?  Can you prove they are connected?

They could say the firmware caused x code but since I doubt the code is that specific Sony just comes back and says this, this, and this can cause that along with this and this.  How do you prove it was the firmware that caused it?

Also, when say 20,000,000 people downloaded the update and say 19,999,750 didn't have any problems how do you prove that less than 1% of the total PS3's had that unique thing that made the PS3's brick?



They should read the fine print, basically says if your console bricks on a firmware sony can not be held responsible.



^^^

Where there is smoke there is fire.

All the tech would have to do is build a circumstantial case. And put that into the hands of a jury. The error code would probably be very damning.

As an example that consoles do have these error codes, look at the 360's E74 error. Once your in a diagnostic screen there could be dozens of other errors that go along with this E74 error and thats how you narrow things down. E74 + E21 means a certain thing as an example.



"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."

Quote by- The Imortal John Wayne, the original BADASS!

 

 

 

Around the Network
markers said:
They should read the fine print, basically says if your console bricks on a firmware sony can not be held responsible.

Eh, stuff like that doesn't always hold up.  As long as you can actually prove it was the firmware you can probably get something, you just have to prove it's the firmware update that's breaking things.

For instance, in my above example I used 250/20,000,000 consoles broke which doesn't really show anything but if 2,500,000/20,000,000 broke when the firmware released, you could probably have a case even with the fine print.



damndl0ser said:
^^^

Where there is smoke there is fire.

All the tech would have to do is build a circumstantial case. And put that into the hands of a jury. The error code would probably be very damning.

As an example that consoles do have these error codes, look at the 360's E74 error. Once your in a diagnostic screen there could be dozens of other errors that go along with this E74 error and thats how you narrow things down. E74 + E21 means a certain thing as an example.

Unless that error code was specifically linked to firmware updates though then all they could say is it's also related to overheating and it could have been that.  If it were something with the firmware, there would have been more broken consoles.

They can't just say it could be the update, they have to show it was the update.  Also, I don't believe civil action lawsuits have juries do they?

Again, I realize there are error codes but I highly doubt there's an error code or group of error codes that are going to prove it was the firmware, especially with such a small number of broken consoles.  Like Sony said, I'm sure it just coincidence.



twesterm said:
damndl0ser said:
^^^

Where there is smoke there is fire.

All the tech would have to do is build a circumstantial case. And put that into the hands of a jury. The error code would probably be very damning.

As an example that consoles do have these error codes, look at the 360's E74 error. Once your in a diagnostic screen there could be dozens of other errors that go along with this E74 error and thats how you narrow things down. E74 + E21 means a certain thing as an example.

Unless that error code was specifically linked to firmware updates though then all they could say is it's also related to overheating and it could have been that.  If it were something with the firmware, there would have been more broken consoles.

Again, I realize there are error codes but I highly doubt there's an error code or group of error codes that are going to prove it was the firmware, especially with such a small number of broken consoles.  Like Sony said, I'm sure it just coincidence.

I don't think you understand my point, but thats ok.  They wouldn't have to have an exact error code to prove their case.  All they have to do is prove that its more than likely what happend.   This will probably never goto court, more than likely Sony will settle out of court.

 

Just like in real life Jury Trials, people get convicted on circumstantial evidence every day.  Thats all it would take.



"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."

Quote by- The Imortal John Wayne, the original BADASS!

 

 

 

damndl0ser said:
twesterm said:
damndl0ser said:
^^^

Where there is smoke there is fire.

All the tech would have to do is build a circumstantial case. And put that into the hands of a jury. The error code would probably be very damning.

As an example that consoles do have these error codes, look at the 360's E74 error. Once your in a diagnostic screen there could be dozens of other errors that go along with this E74 error and thats how you narrow things down. E74 + E21 means a certain thing as an example.

Unless that error code was specifically linked to firmware updates though then all they could say is it's also related to overheating and it could have been that.  If it were something with the firmware, there would have been more broken consoles.

Again, I realize there are error codes but I highly doubt there's an error code or group of error codes that are going to prove it was the firmware, especially with such a small number of broken consoles.  Like Sony said, I'm sure it just coincidence.

I don't think you understand my point, but thats ok.  They wouldn't have to have an exact error code to prove their case.  All they have to do is prove that its more than likely what happend.   This will probably never goto court, more than likely Sony will settle out of court.

 

Just like in real life Jury Trials, people get convicted on circumstantial evidence every day.  Thats all it would take.

And I'm telling you they can't prove it's more than likely without an exact error code because this was far from a widespread thing.  This was probably nothing more than a few hundred consoles which is just a coincidence when you're talking somewhere in the range of 20 million consoles.  Sony has better circumstantial evidence.

Also, civil action lawsuits don't have juries.



Firmware 3.1 hasn't been released yet...