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Forums - Gaming - Dad shoot son over video game!

Final-Fan said:

Where did you get that information?  It doesn't tell the distance in the story.  And what it does say is that the kid tried to knock the gun out of his hands and then ran away, and was shot while running.  If the kid couldn't get 3 feet, he must have been as drunk as his dad. 

And if he was at any real distance, IMO that guy was probably too drunk to hit him with much of anything other than the gun (which was itself far from guaranteed), especially your downright comical suggestion of bow and arrow.  And car. 

(Not that it can't be a formidable weapon but it sounds like the circumstances would have made it not any kind of option -- he was drunk, the kid could have grabbed the arrow before running, etc.)

Most of that was said simply to highlight the fact that there are many more weapons of opportunity in this situation than one would expect. The car is likely very viable as he tracked his son down, and was clearly beyond pissed off for whatever reasons. If he was really that drunk, then he got a lucky shot which makes a lucky shot with a knife much more likely. Especially considering you don't have to waste the time loading it while the child attempts to knock it out of your hand. They were well within arms reach of each other.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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Resident Evil Umbreall Chronicles is to blame!

Or Hip hop, i dont know.

 

It couldnt be stupidity could it?? nahhh no such these.



Gnizmo said:
Final-Fan said:

Where did you get that information?  It doesn't tell the distance in the story.  And what it does say is that the kid tried to knock the gun out of his hands and then ran away, and was shot while running.  If the kid couldn't get 3 feet, he must have been as drunk as his dad. 

And if he was at any real distance, IMO that guy was probably too drunk to hit him with much of anything other than the gun (which was itself far from guaranteed), especially your downright comical suggestion of bow and arrow.  And car. 

(Not that it can't be a formidable weapon but it sounds like the circumstances would have made it not any kind of option -- he was drunk, the kid could have grabbed the arrow before running, etc.)

Most of that was said simply to highlight the fact that there are many more weapons of opportunity in this situation than one would expect. The car is likely very viable as he tracked his son down, and was clearly beyond pissed off for whatever reasons. If he was really that drunk, then he got a lucky shot which makes a lucky shot with a knife much more likely. Especially considering you don't have to waste the time loading it while the child attempts to knock it out of your hand. They were well within arms reach of each other.

If he'd had a knife, it sounds like the kid would have just run away.  I doubt the guy is good at knife-throwing ... while drunk. 

The car was not at all viable because the whole situation was explicitly that he was roaming around the house (trailer? apartment? whatever) looking for his game and getting drunk and pissed off.  If the kid takes off there is no way he's going to go out, start up his car, and track him down somehow and then ram the building the kid is no doubt in by now and somehow kill him. 

The kid was probably not aware that the guy was getting and loading his gun or he would have been long gone instead of having to try to knock the gun out of his hands, giving no time advantage over the guy showing up with a knife vs. a gun. 



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Final-Fan said:

If he'd had a knife, it sounds like the kid would have just run away.  I doubt the guy is good at knife-throwing ... while drunk. 

The car was not at all viable because the whole situation was explicitly that he was roaming around the house (trailer? apartment? whatever) looking for his game and getting drunk and pissed off.  If the kid takes off there is no way he's going to go out, start up his car, and track him down somehow and then ram the building the kid is no doubt in by now and somehow kill him. 

The kid was probably not aware that the guy was getting and loading his gun or he would have been long gone instead of having to try to knock the gun out of his hands, giving no time advantage over the guy showing up with a knife vs. a gun.

“The son then proceeds to try and knock the gun away and then he runs away,“ Silva said.

Sounds to me like the kid was aware there was a gun involved. Also sounds like he was close enough to make arm contact with the father. Close enough for a knife wound. No need to throw it.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Gnizmo said:
Final-Fan said:

If he'd had a knife, it sounds like the kid would have just run away.  I doubt the guy is good at knife-throwing ... while drunk. 

The car was not at all viable because the whole situation was explicitly that he was roaming around the house (trailer? apartment? whatever) looking for his game and getting drunk and pissed off.  If the kid takes off there is no way he's going to go out, start up his car, and track him down somehow and then ram the building the kid is no doubt in by now and somehow kill him. 

The kid was probably not aware that the guy was getting and loading his gun or he would have been long gone instead of having to try to knock the gun out of his hands, giving no time advantage over the guy showing up with a knife vs. a gun.

“The son then proceeds to try and knock the gun away and then he runs away,“ Silva said.

Sounds to me like the kid was aware there was a gun involved. Also sounds like he was close enough to make arm contact with the father. Close enough for a knife wound. No need to throw it.

Yeah, he was aware once the dad shows up with the gun.  Unless he was keeping it in the same room the kid was in at the time, I doubt he was aware of what the dad was doing until he showed up with it.  If he was in the same room and watched his dad rummage around and get out his gun and load it, why wait before trying to run? 

Now the next part is pure speculation, but think about the scenario:  drunk angry father enters room with gun.  Running may provoke him to shoot, so the kid waits until he has an opportunity to knock the gun out of his hands and then runs.  He fails. 

Versus:  drunk angry father enters room with knife.  Kid runs.  Maybe dad throws knife, if he does it probably misses, even if it hits it may not be with the blade and even if the blade hits the wound is probably superficial and almost guaranteed not immediately life-threatening.  (I don't know much about throwing knives but this sounds the most likely to me.)

I doubt the father was able to get close enough to invade the kid's personal space before the kid was aware he had a gun.  So a knife would be the same (doesn't sound like the guy was making any attempt to conceal the weapon, if anything the opposite is likely) and the kid could run away with minimal risk.  No way the guy has such awareness and reaction time while drunk to see the kid about to bolt and lunge for him. 



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Final-Fan said:

Yeah, he was aware once the dad shows up with the gun.  Unless he was keeping it in the same room the kid was in at the time, I doubt he was aware of what the dad was doing until he showed up with it.  If he was in the same room and watched his dad rummage around and get out his gun and load it, why wait before trying to run? 

Now the next part is pure speculation, but think about the scenario:  drunk angry father enters room with gun.  Running may provoke him to shoot, so the kid waits until he has an opportunity to knock the gun out of his hands and then runs.  He fails. 

Versus:  drunk angry father enters room with knife.  Kid runs.  Maybe dad throws knife, if he does it probably misses, even if it hits it may not be with the blade and even if the blade hits the wound is probably superficial and almost guaranteed not immediately life-threatening.  (I don't know much about throwing knives but this sounds the most likely to me.)

I doubt the father was able to get close enough to invade the kid's personal space before the kid was aware he had a gun.  So a knife would be the same (doesn't sound like the guy was making any attempt to conceal the weapon, if anything the opposite is likely) and the kid could run away with minimal risk.  No way the guy has such awareness and reaction time while drunk to see the kid about to bolt and lunge for him.

No way someone drunk enough to use lethal force on their own child could aim well enough to hit the broad side of the barn. It was horrific luck on the part of everyone involved that he hit anything with a gun, let alone a lethal shot.

Your scenarios are not all encompassing, nor do they account for more than a few other scenarios. Dad positions himself between door and kid so he can get his vengeance before the kid bolts. Even a drunk can work this one out.

Really though this is the kind of conversation I was hoping to avoid. At least it is somewhat more relevant to the point I am making I suppose.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

I reserve judgment until I find out which game this was. Depending on the game, he may have been in the right.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Gnizmo said:
No way someone drunk enough to use lethal force on their own child could aim well enough to hit the broad side of the barn. It was horrific luck on the part of everyone involved that he hit anything with a gun, let alone a lethal shot.

Your scenarios are not all encompassing, nor do they account for more than a few other scenarios. Dad positions himself between door and kid so he can get his vengeance before the kid bolts. Even a drunk can work this one out.

Really though this is the kind of conversation I was hoping to avoid. At least it is somewhat more relevant to the point I am making I suppose.

I guess I failed to consider that this might have happened in a one-door room.  A two-door room would not have that problem.  Although, unless it was a tiny room, a knife-wielder would have to leave the doorway to get at the kid. 

But really, my problem wasn't with your taking issue with people saying this was evidence to ban guns so much as it was with your claim that any number of other weapons would be just as deadly in this sort of situation.  It's not true. 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Gnizmo said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
puffy said:
Now tell me please, why is having a gun still legal in America?

Because in America the freedom of a drunk conman to keep guns in his home with his wife and kid is just as important as the freedom of a teenager to grow up without being shot by his drunk conman dad.

In reality, if the kid had his own gun, he could have defended himself.  So more guns would have made that family safer.

Because crazy drunken sociopaths would never use a different weapon, and totally would follow gun control laws. Cause they are such moral and upstanding citizens.

If a drunk sociopath was coming at you with a knife, you could run.  Guns are designed for drunk people to just point and click and kill.  They don't even need to have good aim, 'cuz they can just wiggle it around and keep clicking over and over until you're dead.  Guns give drunk sociopaths a huge advantage that they shouldn't have.

Japan has gun control laws that work, and they have almost no murders compared to us.

Canada lets everybody have guns, but they're good people who don't kill each other.

So there's 2 options that work.  Take away the guns, or stop being evil violent drunk assholes.  Because as a country, we're a bunch of gun-crazy evil violent drunk assholes who shoot our kids all the time.  I think that's bad.  I'm not sure exactly how to stop it, but it's possible.

 

Also, knife throwing is hard as hell.  I used to practice all the time.  It's crazy hard.  And you just can't throw them fast as bullets, so it's not impossible to jump out of the way.  It's not like Big Trouble in Little China or anything.  It's more like the knife throwing in GoldenEye, where they just bounce around and then you have to pick them up.  Very inefficient.



The Ghost of RubangB said:

If a drunk sociopath was coming at you with a knife, you could run.  Guns are designed for drunk people to just point and click and kill.  They don't even need to have good aim, 'cuz they can just wiggle it around and keep clicking over and over until you're dead.  Guns give drunk sociopaths a huge advantage that they shouldn't have.

If the advantage is the problem then we should arm the populace more, yes? That way they don't have an advantage over the sober person. The sober person would have better aim, and thus the advantage. That argument doesn't really work out to well does it? You probably want to rephrase your point.

I removed all the parts that have nothing to do with this story. The father and child were within arms reach of each other. There was no need to throw a knife. He could have just stabbed.

@Final-fan
Being just as deadly is contigent on them being in the same relative positions. If he was willing to get that close to a gun, then he would be willing to get that close to a knife certainly.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229