By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Does Universal Healthcare include Illegal Immigrants?

Avinash_Tyagi on 16 October 2009
badgenome said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

the government created an environment where stupidity could occur

The government created an environment in which such stupidity had to occur if, say, you wanted to open a new branch.

No because as reports show, only a small number of poor loans were a result of the CRA, the CRA loans were actually the better ones, and opening a new branch was still possible, all you can argue is that in their drive to get more money for things like that, they acted stupidly



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Around the Network
SciFiBoy on 16 October 2009
SamuelRSmith said:
Well, I am of a somewhat 'radical' (and unpopular) belief that an amnesty should be declared for all illegal immigrants unless they are found to be breaking any law other than entering the country illegally.

At that point we get to what I think should happen with all immigrants. I.E. - if you're not from the EU you shouldn't be entitled to any welfare system until you've paid taxes for two years - if an immigrant wants anything other than emergency care they will have to pay for it, either up front, or with a state-provided loan.

I agree with the amnesty, but not with the rest of your post; imo, treat them all free, the cost of not doing so is higher in terms of crime and diseases, than any rise in taxation that may or may not be needed to do this. this is my view anyway.



SamuelRSmith on 16 October 2009
SciFiBoy said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Well, I am of a somewhat 'radical' (and unpopular) belief that an amnesty should be declared for all illegal immigrants unless they are found to be breaking any law other than entering the country illegally.

At that point we get to what I think should happen with all immigrants. I.E. - if you're not from the EU you shouldn't be entitled to any welfare system until you've paid taxes for two years - if an immigrant wants anything other than emergency care they will have to pay for it, either up front, or with a state-provided loan.

I agree with the amnesty, but not with the rest of your post; imo, treat them all free, the cost of not doing so is higher in terms of crime and diseases, than any rise in taxation that may or may not be needed to do this. this is my view anyway.

Got any statistics or figures to support that?



Kasz216 on 16 October 2009
highwaystar101 said:
No, illegal immigrants shouldn't get free healthcare from the universal plan.

I expected you to have a different position.

 



Kasz216 on 16 October 2009
ManusJustus said:
Universe healthcare can conver illegal immigrants, but it doesnt have to. Since there are American citizens that are not covered by the current plan, its obvious that illegal immigrants will be left out too since they have no personal verification of being included in the plan when they go to hospitals.

Illegal immigrants will continue to recieve free care (by free I mean not paying the bill) from hospitals just as they currently do.

You don't need personal verification. 

In most states all you need to prove you are a US citizen in a hospital is a declaration of being a US citizen.

It's how so many illegal aliens end up on medicare and medicaid and such.



Around the Network
Voltaire on 16 October 2009

Illegal aliens have been useing faux SS and tax numbers for a while. Somehow it works, somehow they get jobs, and somehow they WILL get some free(er) healthcare.

I dont like it, but thats the way it is.




Kasz216 on 16 October 2009
Voltaire said:
Illegal aliens have been useing faux SS and tax numbers for a while. Somehow it works, somehow they get jobs, and somehow they WILL get some free(er) healthcare.

I dont like it, but thats the way it is.

Actually you don't need faux tax numberse.

Illegal immigrants can get legitamite tax numbers.

The IRS assigns illegal immigrants with tax numbers that they can use instead of SS numbers to pay taxes.

They figure... if they're going to be here why not make them pay taxes?  Many illegal immigrants pay these taxes because there is a chance that when amnesty passes these numbers could be key.  You may only get amnesty if you've been paying taxes for a certain number of years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/nyregion/16immig.html

has a story on it.

 



Kasz216 on 16 October 2009

Still... really what i'm trying to gauge is... not really "should we" or "should we not" have universal healthcare etc.

Just... if we do accept universal healthcare as a responsibility... is it a responsibility we have to everybody or just to our citizens.

Personally, I actually lean towards covering illegal immigrants. If we are going to say "Healthcare is a right" such right should apply to everybody. It's not like freedom of speech or gun ownership rights only belong to US citizens. They belong to everybody in the country.

Whether or not it's financially viable... I'm not sure. Since the US has some unique concerns like, well mexico and people with really bad conditions like cancer and such trying to sneak into the country for treatment.

However if i lived in a country like France or England... I would think a universal government plan SHOULD cover illegal immigrants. 

But i tend to be a bit more of a globalist then most i guess.



SamuelRSmith on 16 October 2009
Kasz216 said:

Still... really what i'm trying to gauge is... not really "should we" or "should we not" have universal healthcare etc.

Just... if we do accept universal healthcare as a responsibility... is it a responsibility we have to everybody or just to our citizens.

Personally, I actually lean towards covering illegal immigrants. If we are going to say "Healthcare is a right" such right should apply to everybody. It's not like freedom of speech or gun ownership rights only belong to US citizens. They belong to everybody in the country.

Whether or not it's financially viable... I'm not sure. Since the US has some unique concerns like, well mexico and people with really bad conditions like cancer and such trying to sneak into the country for treatment.

However if i lived in a country like France or England... I would think a universal government plan SHOULD cover illegal immigrants.

But i tend to be a bit more of a globalist then most i guess.

This is why I approve of cover on EU citizens in the UK - because I know that EU citizens can get ample health care (within reason) in their own country, so they're not exactly flooding the borders. And I know that I can get covered no matter where I go in the EU.

With the States you will will have people coming up from Mexico to get healthcare, but you wouldn't be able to do the same the other way around.



TheRealMafoo on 16 October 2009
MrBubbles said:
we have to present our health cards before we can get service (which illegal residents cannot get)

i assume they could go to the emergency room though and still get seen.

<Person walks into health services building in California>

Person: "I would like a health services card please"

State worker: "What's your SS#"

Person: "123-45-6789"

State worker: "Are you an American citizen?"

Person: "Yes"

State worker : "Here is your health card. Have a nice day"