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Forums - Gaming - So I go back and play HALF LIFE 2

WereKitten said:

^Err, no. You're not forced to move, you're not forced to shoot. The game won't progress, but you're actually not forced to take any actions. They don't happen without your will. When you enter a new room you're not forced to look into a direction, even when characters try to call for your attention. If Gordon spoke to a character when he saw him/her, then for the first time you'd be forced into something.

When I say that you have a fully immersive experience I'm not speaking of having complete freedom, because I never said that the experience in which the immersion happens is that of a free world. No game guarantees that, all games offer immersion into a smaller world with definite rules. I speak of a game that sets those rules very clearly and always plays by them, so that once you know them you will never be yanked out of the game world by their violation.

And frankly, they have some pretty good writers. Some of them are experienced game writers, at least one -Marc Laidlaw- is a writer of SF and horror novels that only later started working with Valve.
The characterizations, expressiveness and dialogs for all other characters are great, so I have little doubt that if they wanted they would have managed to explicitely build a character for Gordon and to write his lines accordingly.
It was not a cop-out, it was a conscious design decision that was probably actually harder to follow through.

Thing is, what you are praising HL2 for is true of almost every generic FPS. Moving when you chose to, playing the game when you want to...Kind of blatantly bog-standard gaming elements.

You may not have to face the characters when they speak, but they speak non the less and the game will not progress until the monologues are over...Just like in any other FPS. The fact is, the immersion is very easily broken in HL2 as you do not have freedom. If I want to go somewhere *bam* I can't - invisible wall stops me, have to wait till a monologue is over, invincible characters etc. All these things remind me, it's just a game, which you have to play exactly as Valve want you to. It's a very limiting 'experience', which I would say is on par with most other shooters. For example, how is the game more immersive than Halo? They both have the same levels of freedom, good pacing etc.

Plus, you never mention the comparison between the GTA3 character and Gorodn - both are just as characterless as each other, yet why does only one get praise for it ?



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^The thing is that I'm talking of innovations in storytelling that Half Life introduced in 1998, when the state of FPS games was that of Quake 2, Blood, Sin. And since then Valve stood by their choices for the whole series, and rightly so to convey a coherent narration.

Those choices might not be groundbreaking today because they broke ground eleven years ago, but they still retain all their value. Some of them like strict first person narration have been widely adopted since, others like relying on the player's curiosity and attention to details instead of explicit exposition of plot points not so much, sadly.

And really, I've already explained that freedom has nothing to do with it, nor has the linearity of Half Life games. Why reiterate?

If you don't appreciate the thing of beauty that is the rigorous design of Half Life games inside a very minimalistic gameplay scheme, I can't really help you. I've already explained what I and many others appreciate of those choices.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

ZenfoldorVGI said:

Since you're going to be argumentative, let me respond.

Your argument had a basic misconception. CoD games can be generalized. In reality, they are vastly different depending on entries. When you lump them together, you really have no argument. You have a generalization, that is incorrect. If I said "the problem with all Deus Ex games." If I started off a paragraph like that, why would you even bother reading further? You shouldn't. It's an ignorant phrase, and I should be busted out on it. Deus Ex games are vastly different, and share very few similar traits. MW manages that. It is vastly different than every other CoD game I've played, and is easily far superior. Most critics agree that it's vastly different, and most also agree its not very similar.

By your posts, I don't even know if you've ever played CoD4, or are just speaking on the series in general.

Now, that might be my misunderstanding. Did you realize that this comparison started with CoD4, or did you think someone else generalized the series, and you were just commenting with a generalization of your own?

As far as needing a defense against it, I don't think that was the goal of my post. You and I diagree about CoD4 having significant problems, I would assume, but I can only judge by your generalization of the whole series. You never commented on that particular game.

Also, I've always said HL2 was great. In fact, the things you've said about the game, I've already realized, long ago, when I played it, and gave it rave reviews. It's a fantastic game. Arguably better than CoD4 based on its length alone, and the pacing is great, yes.

CoD4's campaign is also great though. You shouldn't deny that, even if you don't believe it. It's just argumentative, against popular belief, and will obviously start a fight with the vast majority of people who did enjoy it. What it amounts to is insecurity in most cases. You have to promote one game at the expense of another, simply because someone else interjected a comparison.

That's not right.

What am I defending exactly?

I have played and completed the single player campaigns of Call of Duty, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare and Call of Duty: World at War. All for PC. I have also played but not completed the single player campaign of Call of Duty 2.

So when I say that the 'problem I have with Call of Duty, and has had since the first game, is that it lacks pacing' I'm talking about the fourth installment but from the perspective of the entire series. I agree that each game varies in quality, with Modern Warfare at the top, but ALL the games have a consistent problem with pacing, too many enemies and lack of variation among the enemies. The best moments in the series (most of which occur in part 4) suffer from this.

And in your post, far from adressing this issue at all, you sidestepped and said something that was completely beside the point. So I was sincerely curious as to what you were talking about. I can see now what you meant by it.

Modern Warfare's campaign is good, bordering on great. If they could fix the pacing issues it would be on par with Half-life 2. It easilly beats out every other game in the series though, and before battle fatigue really sets in it's a wonderous experience.



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Mazty said:

Yes, he moves because you want him to. Is this not true of every FPS though??

"If Gordon spoke, he wouldn't say what I want"
....In which game can you actually speak as the main character? None. This is where I call "cop out" on valves part. It's hard to make a character when they speak, not sound like a goon/prick etc.

"The other characters in the game respond exclusively to how you behave,"
Well yes, because you can't behave in any other way, other than the way that Valve want you too...Like in every other generic FPS. Only a very rare few games, say Fable, do the NPC's react to individual choices you make. In Half Life 2, the fact the NPCs respond the way they do has nothing to do with a unique player experience - it's a linear trigger system which everyone has to go through from start to end. There is no exclusitivity in it at all. My experience in HL2 will be the same as yours and every other person who has played it. This is not true for other games, e.g. Morrowind, where each persons experince of the game is different through the individual choice they choose to make. 

If it was a truly immersive expereince you would have free will in it. Which you do not. Therefore, there is no excuse for Gordon not to have a character as you have to play exactly as him, and do exactly the same every run through of the game. As I said, this is just like almost every other FPS on the market e.g. Killzone, Reistance, Halo, F.E.A.R. etc.
If you have to be Gordon right down to being the drone doing nothing but looking through his eyes, controlling his feet down the pre-planned routes and pulling the trigger at only the people Valve want you to kill, he may as well speak. If you are a slave to what Gordon wants to do, clearly Gordon is the one in control of the big decisions in the game, not you, as with most other FPS'.

Unless you think that having a mute in GTA3 made the game better. Other than perspective, there is nothing different between the two mute characters, Gordon and the nameless mute guy.

I believe you have missed the point entirely. The problem here is the difference between the character and the player. If the characters action on screen does not coincide with what the player wants to be doing immersion flies out the window. In Half-Life the player never loses control. All the actions and inactions of the character is the result of the player. There is never any distance between the character and the player.

The world around the player is limited, yes. It will always be, no matter how 'open' it is, there are always boundaries. No matter how well NPC's react to you they will always be scripted. You can always find ways to behave that are not tolerated or recognised by the game. The question is how tight to make the restrictions given the experience you want to produce.

In giving the player complete control over the character you set a different tone. It is no longer a character moving around in the world. It's YOU, moving around.There is never any break with this. You act like you want to, within the possibilities of the game. Never are you forced to watch your character doing something that you would not do.

I find Portal is the perfect example of this type of storytelling. Because it has no NPC's, the character has no reason to speak and the road is supposed to be completely linear anyways. It even gives you the illusion of free will wihtin this setting.



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Killergran said:

I believe you have missed the point entirely. The problem here is the difference between the character and the player. If the characters action on screen does not coincide with what the player wants to be doing immersion flies out the window. In Half-Life the player never loses control. All the actions and inactions of the character is the result of the player. There is never any distance between the character and the player.

The world around the player is limited, yes. It will always be, no matter how 'open' it is, there are always boundaries. No matter how well NPC's react to you they will always be scripted. You can always find ways to behave that are not tolerated or recognised by the game. The question is how tight to make the restrictions given the experience you want to produce.

In giving the player complete control over the character you set a different tone. It is no longer a character moving around in the world. It's YOU, moving around.There is never any break with this. You act like you want to, within the possibilities of the game. Never are you forced to watch your character doing something that you would not do.

I find Portal is the perfect example of this type of storytelling. Because it has no NPC's, the character has no reason to speak and the road is supposed to be completely linear anyways. It even gives you the illusion of free will wihtin this setting.

I'll keep this simple:

The only difference between say HL2 and Killzone 2 (ignoring the gameplay) is that in HL2 the main charater says nothing, and there are no 3rd person perspective cut scenes. That is it.

If we now compare Gordon to GTA3 guy, other than how the game is seen (1st person vs 3rd person) there is no difference in storytelling mechanics. So why is HL2 prasied so much?

You say the Half-Life player never loses control. That's because he is never given any. It's hardly a pro saying you have full control of a car when it's on bricks in the drive-way. In all honesty, you are never given any actual control in HL2. First thing I did when I saw an NPC I emptied a magazine into them, which they pleasently ignored and carried on chatting away, making them seem more like robots than humans.

The HL2 world is as limiting as every other generic FPS - go here, kill X, Y and Z. Congratualtions, move onwards. There is no room for invidiual choices what so ever. As I said, my experience of HL2 will be identical to yours, little jimmys etc.

Saying it's you moving around falls short when you can't do anything other than go along with what the NPCs/Valve want you to do. Just the same as every other generic FPS. Not to mention, very withdrawing from the game experience when you can only go where you want when the monologues have stopped. Granted I understand you never have to watch Gordon do something you wouldn't, but it's a moot point as you can't do what you may wish to do.

In portal granted it works well as there are no NPC's etc, but in a game where there are NPC's, either give the mian character, well, a character, or give the player at least some ounce of freedom, otherwise it's a waste of time aysing "Be yourself....but you have to play the game exactly as we want you to."



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Half Life 2 is the best FPS series.....ever (IMO).

Now give me Episode 3......Valve, you bastards! I hate waiting!



Even if I m going to play Half life 2 (just get the game), I have always been doubtfull about all the praizing around Half life and Valve. I completely fail to see where is innovation in charatcer developpement or story telling.

and the big question is : will half life 2 make me change my point of view ...



Time to Work !

Half Life 2 is the king of SP FPS IMHO. The champ, the one to beat. And with so many FPS focusing on MP over SP these days, I don't expect it's campaign to be topped anytime soon.

CoD4, as Zen points out, does have some great moments, but it's short and unfocused next to HL2, it's also has far less variety and shows that while IW are masters of combat set pieces, they aren't master of narrative flow over an extended time with proper moments of ebb and flow.

But to be fair, given that Half Life 2 is all about SP, with the MP left to other titles, it does have a perhaps unfair advantage over most other titles.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Barozi said:
Serious_frusting said:
You should try the PC maxed out.

I myself have never seen the PS3 version with my own eyes but i can tell you that PC version look a lot better then many FPS this gen.

and plays better i love the puzzle like elemts to the game

Naaah you should play HL2 on the PC with the Cinematic Mod on MAX settings:

(Click to enlarge)

http://cinematicmod.com/

Didn't know about that. Looks amazing!



Woah I'm noticing some COD4 bashing. COD4 has an amazing single player experiance. I reckon most of the bashing is coming from sci fi geeks.