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Forums - General - Brezinski Calls for Obama to Shoot Down Israeli Jets

Final-Fan on 26 September 2009

Well it's more a question of how MUCH difference their own agendas make to us. I mean I doubt ... some of those tiny Polynesian guys have much effect on us. (By "guys" I mean nations, not pygmies...)

And even supposing you're right I think that to think otherwise would be a fairly easy mistake to make -- i.e. a lot of those 7% may think that Israel's actions are hurting us quite a bit but aren't AIMED at hurting us, which is apparently where you would say "Neutral".



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Kasz216 on 26 September 2009
Final-Fan said:
Well it's more a question of how MUCH difference their own agendas make to us. I mean I doubt ... some of those tiny Polynesian guys have much effect on us. (By "guys" I mean nations, not pygmies...)

And even supposing you're right I think that to think otherwise would be a fairly easy mistake to make -- i.e. a lot of those 7% may think that Israel's actions are hurting us quite a bit but aren't AIMED at hurting us, which is apparently where you would say "Neutral".

I disagree that it's a fairly easy mistake to make. 

Enemy is a word that has a very loaded context to it.  Espiecally after the Bush administration.

If anything for such reasons you would think Liberals would be less likely to use the word Enemy then Conservatives since Liberals tend to have a "talk it out" mentality before a "war" mentality, and not many enemys have been dealt with effectivly through negotiations.


Libya being the only example that comes to mind and even then there are threats that Libya will return to it's old ways after it's chairmanship of the Afircan Union is up because they belive the US hasn't given enough.



Final-Fan on 27 September 2009

Hah! If anything, I'd say the opposite about "enemy" being a more restrictive term after the Bush administration, what with all the "with us or against us" rhetoric...



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Kasz216 on 27 September 2009
Final-Fan said:
Hah! If anything, I'd say the opposite about "enemy" being a more restrictive term after the Bush administration, what with all the "with us or against us" rhetoric...

Cause Bush is the most respected guy in the US right now?

His white or black approach was widley criticized by anyone not a Neocon, hence why anyone not a Neocon is going to be a lot more careful just labeling people enemys left and right getting us into random wars.

Bush was a cautionary tale in having only a "friends and enemys approach"



Final-Fan on 27 September 2009

Well you've got me there!

Still, I think the last 8 years have been polarizing which means that people very critical of another nation might be more tempted to call it an "enemy" (whether deeper examination would show that they truly believed it the (reasonable) way you define it or not) unless making a conscious effort to avoid that thinking. It's not as simple as "Oh I'm just going to disregard that type of thinking because it's the philosophy of that idiot Bush".

Or am I wrong there?



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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Kasz216 on 27 September 2009
Final-Fan said:
Well you've got me there!

Still, I think the last 8 years have been polarizing which means that people very critical of another nation might be more tempted to call it an "enemy" (whether deeper examination would show that they truly believed it the (reasonable) way you define it or not) unless making a conscious effort to avoid that thinking. It's not as simple as "Oh I'm just going to disregard that type of thinking because it's the philosophy of that idiot Bush".

Or am I wrong there?

I would argue it kinda would be instinctual.

Afterall that is what got us into Iraq.  Back when everyone was for it.

I think the Bush era has made people think about questions like this more rather then less.


Not to mention that support of Israel is the platform of BOTH political parties.  So to disagree with Bush is to disagree with Obama.

To call Israel an enemy you would have to have a strong "third party" noncomformist view in my opinion.

In otherwords you would have to have thought about the issue a lot.



Final-Fan on 27 September 2009

Well there you go. The Republicans have been famous in recent times for party discipline, and the Democrats have been famous for -- well, a long time -- being relatively lacking in it. Admittedly, this reputation is more about Congressmen than constituents, but I think it also applies to some extent.

"Israel is our ally" is, as you say, the party line.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Kasz216 on 27 September 2009
Final-Fan said:
Well there you go. The Republicans have been famous in recent times for party discipline, and the Democrats have been famous for -- well, a long time -- being relatively lacking in it. Admittedly, this reputation is more about Congressmen than constituents, but I think it also applies to some extent.

"Israel is our ally" is, as you say, the party line.

Indeed, to go against it you'd have to have some pretty serious thoughts about it. 

Even as a Democrat... since it's a both party line.

It's like being for the "Fair Tax" or against Private schools being allowed to exist.

It's something you've had to of thought about a lot to consider it.



Final-Fan on 27 September 2009

I don't think being for the FairTax involves a lot of critical thinking ... but I get what you mean.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 27 September 2009

Ahahah ... against private schools being allowed to exist?? I misread that!

Who the hell is for that? Seriously.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!