By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - The fight over Darwin - Teaching evolution in schools

mrstickball said:
Baroque_Dude said:
I'm in favour of a totally NON RELIGIOUS school.

HOWEVER, about the origin of the world and species, they should explain the different theories, none as true, and let the student believe what he or she wants.

Moreover, I can't accept as something "scientific" the explanation that a lot of millions ago a BIG BOOM just created everything and from nothing emerged the very first form of life that has been evolving into EVERYTHING we see besides rocks and water. Where they there to empirically observe and check that procedure? This is another way of creationism, just theirs.

+1.

I think school should teach something called 'Critical thinking' when it comes to science. After all, aren't we supposed to question things and research using empirical evidence to base assumptions? Isn't that what science is about? If so, why aren't we providing multiple viewpoints on scientific theories like evolution, and then having a healthy discussion about them? Even if ID/Creationism is horribly wrong, why not let the students discuss and debate such things?

I mean, even growing up in a religious, homeschooled environment, I learned evolution. It was taught alongside of ID/creationism as a viable alternate theory. The course was even presented from an ID/Creationist slant, yet readily proposed what evolution teaches. If the creationist side is willing to give both critiques, why cannot the other side?

Teaching multiple theories makes sense only when multiple theories exist. The theory of evolution is currently the only significant scientific theory of how we got here. Teaching ID/creationism beside it would just be terrible - it would be teaching something which simply cannot be considered scientific (due to the fact that it is not falsifiable - the primary requirement of a scientific theory). Of course the creationist side is willing to give both critiques at the moment! That would be a huge victory for them, getting creationism taught in schools. It would also be a travesty for science in America.

ID/creationism do not belong in the science classroom because they are not science.

@Baroque_Dude. Is the big bang even taught in high school? If not then its kind of irrelevant to this discussion. If it is then there is plenty of evidence for it and with the Planck telescope its only going to get stronger - we can actually see the remenants of the big bang in cosmic radiation. As for evolution - the fact of evolution has been well known for a long time now and the theory of evolution is considered one of the very strongest in modern science. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence for it.



Around the Network
Khuutra said:
Baroque_Dude said:
Khuutra said:
Also why do people think that evolution has anything to do with the origin of life? It doesn't! The origin of life is not a part of functional evolutionary theory!

Both are separated phenomena, but if someone believes in evolution it is very probable that he/she will also believe in the Big Bang theory.

That has nothing to do with whether or not evolution is a sound theory, because it is. It is water tight. Evolution does not concern itself with the beginnings of the universe or even the beginnings of life. Evolution is about how life changes, noothing less and nothing more.

Attacking evolution through any other means is ridiculous.


I'll tell you again, with different words: I know that they explain different things but people use to accept them both (1: the origin and 2: the evolution AFTER that origin).



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

The Ghost of RubangB said:
Evolution has been PROVEN on the genetic scale. We can tell which chromosomes from chimpanzees got stuck together and moved around into what exact order in humans. We predicted it, tested it, and proved it.


Scientists say that the human genoma map is a 34% identical with the mice's map, but I don't feel like a 34% mouse.

I know, I know that the chromosomic issue is far more complex but that was a way of speaking. I mean that, what if chimpanzees are a 95% identical to humans? If we have a 34% percentage with mice and we are soooo different, then I think is more natural to have a greater similarity with more similar animals like chimpanzees are.



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

Rath said:

@Baroque_Dude. Is the big bang even taught in high school? If not then its kind of irrelevant to this discussion. If it is then there is plenty of evidence for it and with the Planck telescope its only going to get stronger - we can actually see the remenants of the big bang in cosmic radiation. As for evolution - the fact of evolution has been well known for a long time now and the theory of evolution is considered one of the very strongest in modern science. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence for it.

It's not all about evidence, it's about how everyone INTERPRETS that evidence, mate. You have your opinion, I have mine and I didn't want to come here to discuss about our personal beliefs, but to answer the thread question. The question is not "Who wins? Creationism or evolution?", it is about what is to be taught in schools.

Regards.



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

Baroque_Dude said:
Rath said:

@Baroque_Dude. Is the big bang even taught in high school? If not then its kind of irrelevant to this discussion. If it is then there is plenty of evidence for it and with the Planck telescope its only going to get stronger - we can actually see the remenants of the big bang in cosmic radiation. As for evolution - the fact of evolution has been well known for a long time now and the theory of evolution is considered one of the very strongest in modern science. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence for it.

It's not all about evidence, it's about how everyone INTERPRETS that evidence, mate. You have your opinion, I have mine and I didn't want to come here to discuss about our personal beliefs, but to answer the thread question. The question is not "Who wins? Creationism or evolution?", it is about what is to be taught in schools.

Regards. -

And the one that is to be taught in schools is the one that is science. As I said, ID/creationism does not qualify as a scientific theory - it is not falsifiable.



Around the Network
Baroque_Dude said:
Khuutra said:

That has nothing to do with whether or not evolution is a sound theory, because it is. It is water tight. Evolution does not concern itself with the beginnings of the universe or even the beginnings of life. Evolution is about how life changes, noothing less and nothing more.

Attacking evolution through any other means is ridiculous.

I'll tell you again, with different words: I know that they explain different things but people use to accept them both (1: the origin and 2: the evolution AFTER that origin).

It doesn't matter if people accept them both. They are not subject to the same arguments.



Khuutra said:
Baroque_Dude said:
Khuutra said:

That has nothing to do with whether or not evolution is a sound theory, because it is. It is water tight. Evolution does not concern itself with the beginnings of the universe or even the beginnings of life. Evolution is about how life changes, noothing less and nothing more.

Attacking evolution through any other means is ridiculous.

I'll tell you again, with different words: I know that they explain different things but people use to accept them both (1: the origin and 2: the evolution AFTER that origin).

It doesn't matter if people accept them both. They are not subject to the same arguments.

I didn't say the contrary. And? Nevertheless, that's not the discussion here, at least not the kind of discussion that I want to be in.



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

Baroque_Dude said:
Khuutra said:
Baroque_Dude said:

I'll tell you again, with different words: I know that they explain different things but people use to accept them both (1: the origin and 2: the evolution AFTER that origin).

It doesn't matter if people accept them both. They are not subject to the same arguments.

I didn't say the contrary. And? Nevertheless, that's not the discussion here, at least not the kind of discussion that I want to be in.

....You responded to a statement asking why a behavior occurs and answered "because people believe both". You joined in this conversation: it was not thrust upon you.



Why should creationism be taught in science class again? Should we teach about the Time Cube too? Astrology? Alchemy? Witchcraft? Why only creationism in science class?

Science class is to teach about the scientific method, the prevailing scientific theories, and the facts and evidence used to deduce the theories. Teaching a 15 year old about the time cube (go wiki it if you're unfamiliar with the term) in the name of debate and critical thinking is grossly irresponsible, because you inevitably will have a number of 8th graders going through life believing in the time cube because it was presented as a possible alternative that shouldn't be discounted just because it doesn't fit "Science". If you are going to include something like the time cube or creationism it should only be to show the difference between science and pseudo science as a means of teaching critical thinking, and not as a viable scientific hypothesis.

Creationism can be taught in religious studies, it can be taught in philosophy, but it in no way is scientific, has nothing to do with the scientific method, it is neither provable nor disprovable, and is pseudo-science if it is any kind of science. If you include ID into science then you open the door to every other form of understanding our world be it witchcraft, astrology, spiritism or anything else.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Khuutra said:
Baroque_Dude said:
Khuutra said:
Baroque_Dude said:

I'll tell you again, with different words: I know that they explain different things but people use to accept them both (1: the origin and 2: the evolution AFTER that origin).

It doesn't matter if people accept them both. They are not subject to the same arguments.

I didn't say the contrary. And? Nevertheless, that's not the discussion here, at least not the kind of discussion that I want to be in.

....You responded to a statement asking why a behavior occurs and answered "because people believe both". You joined in this conversation: it was not thrust upon you.

....

I didn't say "because people believe both", exactly. I just put the Big Bang in my first post because is another example of a controversial and thorny issue regarding the origin of the world where we live and both evolution and the Big Bang theory are the scientific standard theories about the origin of the world (one) and life (the other), and that's it.

This is the third time that I say that I know that they are different things, but you keep on "attacking?" me with that.

Next issue, please.



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!