By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Take some personal philosophy tests! Are you intellectually coherent?

Argh. Why do you say the continuation of consciousness is broken?

Can you please give some reason for why this should be so - I can't think of any reason in physics why it should be.



Around the Network
Rath said:
Argh. Why do you say the continuation of consciousness is broken?

Can you please give some reason for why this should be so - I can't think of any reason in physics why it should be.

Consiousness is tied to ones brain.  It's not some magical floating entity.

New brain = New consiousness... a brain can be rebuilt and given identical expierences... but it is still a new brain and new consiousness.

 

 



That argument relies on the assumption that the new brain cannot have a continuation of the old consciousness. The consciousness itself isn't a magical floating entity but neither is it directly a physical thing, its a series of interactions between chemicals and electricity. If these conditions are directly replicated then the consciousness would seem (from the perspective of the subject) to continue.

Look at it this way. If you were to snap freeze a person so that all brain activity stopped for a year and then unfreeze them would they continue to be the same person?

Now if you were to snap freeze a person so that all brain activity stopped, destroy the brain, and a year later recreate the brain in identical fashion (still frozen) and then unfreeze them would they continue to be the same person?

In the year inbetween for both of them their brain is entirely inactive, looking at the snap shot of when they are frozen and unfrozen the brain is identical in each case. What is the difference between the two?



Rath said:
That argument relies on the assumption that the new brain cannot have a continuation of the old consciousness. The consciousness itself isn't a magical floating entity but neither is it directly a physical thing, its a series of interactions between chemicals and electricity. If these conditions are directly replicated then the consciousness would seem (from the perspective of the subject) to continue.

Look at it this way. If you were to snap freeze a person so that all brain activity stopped for a year and then unfreeze them would they continue to be the same person?

Now if you were to snap freeze a person so that all brain activity stopped, destroy the brain, and a year later recreate the brain in identical fashion (still frozen) and then unfreeze them would they continue to be the same person?

In the year inbetween for both of them their brain is entirely inactive, looking at the snap shot of when they are frozen and unfrozen the brain is identical in each case. What is the difference between the two?

The difference is that one is the original brain and consiosuness and the other isn't.

 

Consiousness IS a physical thing.  If the conditions are directly replicated they are directly replicated.

 

AKA replicated.  Something replicated is a copy.  Not the original.


The first case is a preservation of the orignal consiousness.

The second case is infact a replication of it.  In otherwords... a copy.

Much like computer programs.  I can copy my resume on a flash drive... and it is just that... a copy.  Even though there has been no disrutption in it.

It would be the same if i were to copy an artificial intellegence onto a flash drive.  It would be a copy.  It would not be the original AI anymore.

 

The replication did not live those events on earth.  I merely thinks it did and has the memories of it.

Lets say I'm a Supervillian... and I capture Spiderman... and use my crazy crudguleous cranium crusher to make his brain an exact copy of my brain.

Am I now Spiderman?  Has Peter Parker died only to be replaced by me?  What if I'm blasted then by a mind wiper by Doctor Doom... and I remember nothing at all... am I dead? Has another person replaced me?  Doctor Doom has interupted my consouisness.

 



If a scientist told you that he had always wanted to kill somebody just to watch him die, and he wants to pay you a thousand dollars to kill you. He says not to worry because he has a sample of your DNA, and a really awesome computer that he will use to record the exact position of all the electrons in your brain before you die, and he will simply make an exact copy of you the moment before he shot you in the face, would you take the thousand dollars and do it? Do you think you'd be getting a good deal out of this? When he's holding the gun to your face asking if you're really sure you want to go through with it do you tell him "it's no prob, I'll be back in a jiffy"? Do you expect to wake up?

If the answer to any of those is "no" then you too think that you are more than just the chemicals that compose your brain, you think that you are the continuity of the chemicals and electrons that compose your brain.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Around the Network
The_vagabond7 said:

If a scientist told you that he had always wanted to kill somebody just to watch him die, and he wants to pay you a thousand dollars to kill you. He says not to worry because he has a sample of your DNA, and a really awesome computer that he will use to record the exact position of all the electrons in your brain before you die, and he will simply make an exact copy of you the moment before he shot you in the face, would you take the thousand dollars and do it? Do you think you'd be getting a good deal out of this? When he's holding the gun to your face asking if you're really sure you want to go through with it do you tell him "it's no prob, I'll be back in a jiffy"? Do you expect to wake up?

If the answer to any of those is "no" then you too think that you are more than just the chemicals that compose your brain, you think that you are the continuity of the chemicals and electrons that compose your brain.

how does he know he's not asleep already?

this could all be a dream...or we could be in the Matrix right now...would we really know?



No because why on earth would I trust a scientist who wanted to kill somebody to watch him die?

But yes to the situation in a purely hypothetical sense.

 

Edit: Electrical signals in the brain at that point would also need to be saved, as well as the positions of more than just the electrons (ie, protons and neutrons as well).



Rath said:

No because why on earth would I trust a scientist who wanted to kill somebody to watch him die?

But yes to the situation in a purely hypothetical sense.

 

Edit: Electrical signals in the brain at that point would also need to be saved, as well as the positions of more than just the electrons (ie, protons and neutrons as well).

So if someone gives you permament amneisa it's of your opinion they've killed you?



If your brain gets blown up and someone puts it back together, will you be the same conciousness?



Kasz216 said:
Rath said:

No because why on earth would I trust a scientist who wanted to kill somebody to watch him die?

But yes to the situation in a purely hypothetical sense.

 

Edit: Electrical signals in the brain at that point would also need to be saved, as well as the positions of more than just the electrons (ie, protons and neutrons as well).

So if someone gives you permament amneisa it's of your opinion they've killed you?

 

What? You seem to be crossing borders of consciousness and memory here.