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Forums - General - Judaism was not originally monotheistic, Jesus was not originally loving.

ManusJustus on 25 August 2009
Gnizmo said:

ManusJustus said:

When you have to make several references to my argument being wrong, it shows that you know that your argument is unable to do so alone.

My definition of monotheism is exact same definition as that of the Enlgish dicionary.  In monothiesm, God is the only god there ever was or ever will be.  You are confusing monotheism with monolatry, which is the worship of one god even though other gods exist.

No, I am quite aware of Ghandi's racism, and his view of blacks in particular.  Ghandi was a man though, and a great man for his time.  All men make mistakes and are partially bound by the social ideas of their time and environment.  However, for many, Jesus was not a man but God, and since many people believe God to be unfalliable and benevolent, it is entirely reasonable for me to bring up of an event where this is not the case (Jesus calling a woman a dog because of her ethnicity).

mon⋅o⋅the⋅ism [mon-uh-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA 
–noun the doctrine or belief that there is only one God.

 From dictionary.com. I would like to know the exact Eglish dictionary you use? Judaism teaches there is only one god, and that is the Lord of Hosts. The bible shows other gods, but does not teach to believe in them. It references them as one of the many hosts of heavens that others call a god. Your argument holds no water.

 Jesus was not God. Your ignorance on the text you are attempting to speak about is quite obvious. At this point I am convinced you are trolling as you continue to ignore my arguments and repeat your inflammatory talking points. Jesus did not discriminate based on ethnicity. GHe discriminated based on religious beliefs. When she showed the proper reverence she was treated as an equal of the children of Israel, much like the good Samritan was. If you do not understand wahy the story of the good Samiritan is relevant then you have no business discussing this topic.

It is best you drop the illusion that you are discussing this with someone who believes in, or follows the bible as well. I have read it, but do not follow any religion that uses it. If you cannot provide facts and scripture to counter my arguments you will just look stupid as it will be quite clear you are arguing for ignorance. I am quite certain you are intelligent, so I ask that you post in a way that displays it.

Monotheism - the doctrine or belief that there is only one God.

Monolatry - the worship of only one god although other gods are recognized as existing.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

You previously said:

Monotheism is defined by the worship of one god. You should read my posts more carefully.  You look less foolish when you do. I openly reference places the bible directly uses other gods, and explain what God's position amongst them, and on them is. He never once says you cannot know they exist. You cannot worship them however, and you cannot believe in them. By definition, that is monotheism. Your argument holds no water so far.

I'll let you make a fool of yourself, I dont have to.  Note that I only wrote two setences in this post, the previous one and this one, the rest is your a copy and past of your words and the dictionary.



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Sqrl on 25 August 2009

Locked.

Its obvious where this is headed already with both sides calling each other fools. Maybe next time we can drop the personal stuff and have a discussion.....maybe...but I doubt it.
To Each Man, Responsibility
ManusJustus on 25 August 2009
nightsurge said:

 

Mathew 15: Jesus calls a woman a dog and initally ignores a women's plea for help because she is of a different ethnicity.

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

But he answered and said, It is not fair to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Jesus is not calling the woman a dog, he is testing her faith.  Something quite common in religion, which you seem not to understand.

...

Exodus 12: God will judge the gods of Egypt and shame them by killing children in their nation.  Even though God is more powerful than the gods of Egypt, the gods of Egypt still exist.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

He is not acknowledging they exist.  They don't and he knows that.  It is the foolish Egyptians who created these false gods.  He is saying that there is nothing Egypts gods can do, because they are nothing and do not truly exist.  He is trying to teach them this by showing their gods can do nothing to stop Him, again, because they do not exist.  This happens a lot of times in the Bible.  Prophets of God challenge prophets of Baal, for example, and God sends down a fire from the heavens while Baal never does anything.

...

Baal, an ancient god, changing from a diety into the demom Beelzebub (from Baal Zebub). 

Baal was never a real god.  He was made up by ignorant humans.  Beelzebub is a true demon though.  Probably influenced the humans to believe falsely in Baal, which would perfectly explain the similarities.

 


- I'm going to try to make the argument format flow better, curse this site or internet explorer for not letting me copy and past from a quote box.

Jesus obviously calls the woman a dog.  After ignoring her pleas of help, the disciples ask Jesus to get rid of her so they will stop annoying them with pleas of help for her sick child.  Jesus then makes a metaphor where he is the master, Israel is his children, and this woman (because she is not Jewish) is a dog.  All I did was copy and paste the passage from Bible.com, and it reads pretty clearly.

If other gods do not exist, then why does god say they are gods and judge them.  God doesnt say he is going to show the Egyptians that their gods do not exist, he says that he is more powerful than Egypt's gods and can judge them and kill their followers.  God makes a lot of references that do not make if these other gods to not exist.  He would not be jealous of other gods, he would not call other gods 'gods' if they didnt exist, and he would not judge gods if they do not exist.

Baal was a god that was worshipped by Hebrews and their neighbors.  Not suprisingly, Yahweh and Baal are in competition, and in the Bible Baal undergoes a conformation from weaker Hebrew god, to weaker foriegn god, to the status of demon that he has now.  The idea of Baal predates Beezlebub.  In the Old Testament, the Bible specifically refers to Beezlebub as a god of the Philistines, not a demon as you claim, anidea that Christians created later.

- Other things that I did not salvage in the quote box.

If you want to know about the contradictions in the Bible, just read it.  I previously mentioned contradictions in the Bible about Jesus' birth, and why it was important for Christian authors to place Jesus of Nazareth's birth in Bethleham.  If you want to know about similarities between Horus, Appollonius, and other figures similar to Jesus, the best thing to do would be to read up on them yourself.  Yes, God is not the benevolent god that people think he is, but a lot of people do think this so it is reasonable for me to argue against it.