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Forums - General - Should There Be A Winner?

SamuelRSmith said:
trashleg said:
i agree with scifi boy, but voter apathy is a difficult thing to deal with. i hate that a party can become government with less than even 40% of the vote, because technically 60% DON'T want that party.. so thats almost anti-democracy, lol.

but like i said its tricky. if you dont vote, then... *shrugs* you take what you're given, i suppose. and you cant bitch about it later.

So because they didn't vote, you assume that they automatically didn't want the winner to win?

If you don't vote because you don't care who governs you, or you feel confident that your party of choice will win the election without your vote, then I see no problem in the Government operating with a less than 50% share of the vote (and how often would more than 50% of the entire electorate vote for the same thing, anyway?).

If, however, you don't vote because you feel that your vote is wasted, or because you don't like any of the parties, then that's the issue... but again, apathy is not the answer. The only way to solve these issues is to become less-apathetic than a voter, get out there, and try and work towards making the system better.

what do you suggest on that front then?



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SamuelRSmith said:
trashleg said:
i agree with scifi boy, but voter apathy is a difficult thing to deal with. i hate that a party can become government with less than even 40% of the vote, because technically 60% DON'T want that party.. so thats almost anti-democracy, lol.

but like i said its tricky. if you dont vote, then... *shrugs* you take what you're given, i suppose. and you cant bitch about it later.

So because they didn't vote, you assume that they automatically didn't want the winner to win?

If you don't vote because you don't care who governs you, or you feel confident that your party of choice will win the election without your vote, then I see no problem in the Government operating with a less than 50% share of the vote (and how often would more than 50% of the entire electorate vote for the same thing, anyway?).

If, however, you don't vote because you feel that your vote is wasted, or because you don't like any of the parties, then that's the issue... but again, apathy is not the answer. The only way to solve these issues is to become less-apathetic than a voter, get out there, and try and work towards making the system better.

naw, thats not what i meant. what i meant was that in elections where the winning party actually have a really small percentage (ie less than half) of the votes, you could argue that more than half didnt want that party.

scotland uses proportional representation, which they say is fairer.. i havent studied politics for 2 years though, its fuzzy.

 

i agree that it should be taught in schools though, considering how big a role the government play in life now.



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
SciFiBoy said:
SamuelRSmith said:
trashleg said:
i agree with scifi boy, but voter apathy is a difficult thing to deal with. i hate that a party can become government with less than even 40% of the vote, because technically 60% DON'T want that party.. so thats almost anti-democracy, lol.

but like i said its tricky. if you dont vote, then... *shrugs* you take what you're given, i suppose. and you cant bitch about it later.

So because they didn't vote, you assume that they automatically didn't want the winner to win?

If you don't vote because you don't care who governs you, or you feel confident that your party of choice will win the election without your vote, then I see no problem in the Government operating with a less than 50% share of the vote (and how often would more than 50% of the entire electorate vote for the same thing, anyway?).

If, however, you don't vote because you feel that your vote is wasted, or because you don't like any of the parties, then that's the issue... but again, apathy is not the answer. The only way to solve these issues is to become less-apathetic than a voter, get out there, and try and work towards making the system better.

what do you suggest on that front then?

Ah, now this is a much more interesting topic.

Apathy is a difficult thing to deal with.

We could do what the Aussies do and make voting compulsory, but this in itself is undemocratic. It also causes problems when people just vote to avoid the fine, and don't really pay attention to who they're voting for (what would you rather? Someone not voting, or somebody voting for any random regardless of policy). It's also going to cost money to enforce.

We could encourage a greater interest in politics. Teaching it in schools isn't always the best thing to do, due to teacher biases, also, look at how pupils respond to being forced to do Religious Education - they aren't happy about it, and they respond to it negatively. A "citizenship" lesson, though, could include this (as I alluded to in that manifesto I sent you ).

Perhaps the best thing to do, though, is nothing. That's right, nothing. Apathy is bad because it leads to representatives and Governments that might not be what's best for the nation: but when that happens, apathy will die down naturally, and people will get out and vote against what they've created. Secondly, it can be said that people vote with their wallets - ie, they become more apathetic when things are going well*. This recession will help to get more people out there to vote.

*Yes, I know that the recent elections that have been going on haven't seen a great turnout, but that's because the effects of the recession were negated by the all of the "scandals" that were coming out at the time.



interesting point^.

made me think, maybe people are apathetic cos they don't mind the job thats being done. if it aint broke, dont fix it.. that kinda thing?

makes sense, in a way. apathy isnt as bad as people think it is, maybe? idunno. im tired.



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
trashleg said:
SamuelRSmith said:
trashleg said:
i agree with scifi boy, but voter apathy is a difficult thing to deal with. i hate that a party can become government with less than even 40% of the vote, because technically 60% DON'T want that party.. so thats almost anti-democracy, lol.

but like i said its tricky. if you dont vote, then... *shrugs* you take what you're given, i suppose. and you cant bitch about it later.

So because they didn't vote, you assume that they automatically didn't want the winner to win?

If you don't vote because you don't care who governs you, or you feel confident that your party of choice will win the election without your vote, then I see no problem in the Government operating with a less than 50% share of the vote (and how often would more than 50% of the entire electorate vote for the same thing, anyway?).

If, however, you don't vote because you feel that your vote is wasted, or because you don't like any of the parties, then that's the issue... but again, apathy is not the answer. The only way to solve these issues is to become less-apathetic than a voter, get out there, and try and work towards making the system better.

naw, thats not what i meant. what i meant was that in elections where the winning party actually have a really small percentage (ie less than half) of the votes, you could argue that more than half didnt want that party.

scotland uses proportional representation, which they say is fairer.. i havent studied politics for 2 years though, its fuzzy.

 

i agree that it should be taught in schools though, considering how big a role the government play in life now.

Scotland don't PR, they use something called Additional Member System, it's a combination between First Past the Post and Proportional Representation, it also happens to be my favourite form of electoral system.

fyi, Labour actually received around 20% of the electorate's support last election (if you factor in non-voters), and yet they won over 50% of the seats.

The issue is that the way we elect our representatives hasn't evolved in line with the way that the representatives group themselves (ie - FPP is the perfect system for electing independents, but, as parties started to form, the system's weaknesses began to appear).



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SamuelRSmith said:
SciFiBoy said:
SamuelRSmith said:
trashleg said:
i agree with scifi boy, but voter apathy is a difficult thing to deal with. i hate that a party can become government with less than even 40% of the vote, because technically 60% DON'T want that party.. so thats almost anti-democracy, lol.

but like i said its tricky. if you dont vote, then... *shrugs* you take what you're given, i suppose. and you cant bitch about it later.

So because they didn't vote, you assume that they automatically didn't want the winner to win?

If you don't vote because you don't care who governs you, or you feel confident that your party of choice will win the election without your vote, then I see no problem in the Government operating with a less than 50% share of the vote (and how often would more than 50% of the entire electorate vote for the same thing, anyway?).

If, however, you don't vote because you feel that your vote is wasted, or because you don't like any of the parties, then that's the issue... but again, apathy is not the answer. The only way to solve these issues is to become less-apathetic than a voter, get out there, and try and work towards making the system better.

what do you suggest on that front then?

Ah, now this is a much more interesting topic.

Apathy is a difficult thing to deal with.

We could do what the Aussies do and make voting compulsory, but this in itself is undemocratic. It also causes problems when people just vote to avoid the fine, and don't really pay attention to who they're voting for (what would you rather? Someone not voting, or somebody voting for any random regardless of policy). It's also going to cost money to enforce.

We could encourage a greater interest in politics. Teaching it in schools isn't always the best thing to do, due to teacher biases, also, look at how pupils respond to being forced to do Religious Education - they aren't happy about it, and they respond to it negatively. A "citizenship" lesson, though, could include this (as I alluded to in that manifesto I sent you ).

Perhaps the best thing to do, though, is nothing. That's right, nothing. Apathy is bad because it leads to representatives and Governments that might not be what's best for the nation: but when that happens, apathy will die down naturally, and people will get out and vote against what they've created. Secondly, it can be said that people vote with their wallets - ie, they become more apathetic when things are going well*. This recession will help to get more people out there to vote.

*Yes, I know that the recent elections that have been going on haven't seen a great turnout, but that's because the effects of the recession were negated by the all of the "scandals" that were coming out at the time.

i agree to the idea, so we should do that, at the very least, it gives people more knowledge about who they vote for.



from what i can tell, the reason people dont vote are:

lack of trust in politicians (scandals and stuff)
ignorance (people dont know who to vote for, as they dont know much about politics.)
frustration (there is no party that represents your views, this is my problem, although i still vote, just for the least unplesant party, lol, imo, we need a PROPER liberal party here, so i can vote for them, and so can others)



We did have a proper liberal party. The Liberals... but nobody voted for them, and so they merged with the Social Democrats...... guess which party came out of the deal.



SamuelRSmith said:
trashleg said:
SamuelRSmith said:
trashleg said:
i agree with scifi boy, but voter apathy is a difficult thing to deal with. i hate that a party can become government with less than even 40% of the vote, because technically 60% DON'T want that party.. so thats almost anti-democracy, lol.

but like i said its tricky. if you dont vote, then... *shrugs* you take what you're given, i suppose. and you cant bitch about it later.

So because they didn't vote, you assume that they automatically didn't want the winner to win?

If you don't vote because you don't care who governs you, or you feel confident that your party of choice will win the election without your vote, then I see no problem in the Government operating with a less than 50% share of the vote (and how often would more than 50% of the entire electorate vote for the same thing, anyway?).

If, however, you don't vote because you feel that your vote is wasted, or because you don't like any of the parties, then that's the issue... but again, apathy is not the answer. The only way to solve these issues is to become less-apathetic than a voter, get out there, and try and work towards making the system better.

naw, thats not what i meant. what i meant was that in elections where the winning party actually have a really small percentage (ie less than half) of the votes, you could argue that more than half didnt want that party.

scotland uses proportional representation, which they say is fairer.. i havent studied politics for 2 years though, its fuzzy.

 

i agree that it should be taught in schools though, considering how big a role the government play in life now.

Scotland don't PR, they use something called Additional Member System, it's a combination between First Past the Post and Proportional Representation, it also happens to be my favourite form of electoral system.

fyi, Labour actually received around 20% of the electorate's support last election (if you factor in non-voters), and yet they won over 50% of the seats.

The issue is that the way we elect our representatives hasn't evolved in line with the way that the representatives group themselves (ie - FPP is the perfect system for electing independents, but, as parties started to form, the system's weaknesses began to appear).

thanks, i last studied politics in 2006, a year before i could vote. i think maybe they hadnt started the AMS yet. but i remember now, being taught about it.  ta very much. :)



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
SamuelRSmith said:
We did have a proper liberal party. The Liberals... but nobody voted for them, and so they merged with the Social Democrats...... guess which party came out of the deal.

lol, well, thats easy to guess

why did no-one vote for them?

also what where there policys?