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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft against indie games. Locks them out in favour of major publishers

shio on 14 July 2009
seece said:
^ Thats because they're content is the best. We want the best right?

Indie devs have been releasing far better games than the big publishers at $30 or below prices.



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JaggedSac on 14 July 2009
shio said:
Onyxmeth said:

I don't see why these complainers can't merely jump into the Community games section. If the release is very good, it will get bumped up to the most popular, and it will garner more attention and sales that way, so next release MS may be more willing to allow their big project into XBLA itself. It's called earning their place, and yes it may take a release or two to get to hang with the big boy publishers. This is why they created XNA in the first place, so indy studios had their own avenue to get noticed and not have to compete against what would likely be bigger, more robust, and more marketable releases from third party developers and MS themselves. Do these guys really want to compete against Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Battlefield 1943 and Shadow Complex? They'll get swallowed.

The Community games section is for hobbyists and amateur devs, it is not for proffessional developers nor is a place to make money. We are talking about real developers that are in a small, indie team and that get paid like any dev from a big studio. Indie devs are the people that Audiosurf, or Mount & Blade, or Zeno Clash, etc...

Indie developers have been the ones that have done original things, and spurred a tremendous amount of creativity that we stopped seeing in big studios and publishers. What Microsoft is doing is take from indie devs and give to the big publishers, in order to satisfy the publishers, but it will hurt the ones that need support the most.

I mean, publishers are releasing remakes that don't even add anything to the experience, games that have no originality. Hell, maybe Audiosurf or Zeno Clash will never come to the Xbox 360 because of them.

There is nothing saying that this has to be the case.  The only restriction placed on Community games is that they have to be made using the XNA framework.  And they can even charge up to 800 MP if they want I think.



point x on 14 July 2009
shio said:
Onyxmeth said:

I don't see why these complainers can't merely jump into the Community games section. If the release is very good, it will get bumped up to the most popular, and it will garner more attention and sales that way, so next release MS may be more willing to allow their big project into XBLA itself. It's called earning their place, and yes it may take a release or two to get to hang with the big boy publishers. This is why they created XNA in the first place, so indy studios had their own avenue to get noticed and not have to compete against what would likely be bigger, more robust, and more marketable releases from third party developers and MS themselves. Do these guys really want to compete against Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Battlefield 1943 and Shadow Complex? They'll get swallowed.

The Community games section is for hobbyists and amateur devs, it is not for proffessional developers nor is a place to make money. We are talking about real developers that are in a small, indie team and that get paid like any dev from a big studio. Indie devs are the people that Audiosurf, or Mount & Blade, or Zeno Clash, etc...

Indie developers have been the ones that have done original things, and spurred a tremendous amount of creativity that we stopped seeing in big studios and publishers. What Microsoft is doing is take from indie devs and give to the big publishers, in order to satisfy the publishers, but it will hurt the ones that need support the most.

I mean, publishers are releasing remakes that don't even add anything to the experience, games that have no originality. Hell, maybe Audiosurf or Zeno Clash will never come to the Xbox 360 because of them.

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Graves on 14 July 2009
shio said:
Onyxmeth said:

I don't see why these complainers can't merely jump into the Community games section. If the release is very good, it will get bumped up to the most popular, and it will garner more attention and sales that way, so next release MS may be more willing to allow their big project into XBLA itself. It's called earning their place, and yes it may take a release or two to get to hang with the big boy publishers. This is why they created XNA in the first place, so indy studios had their own avenue to get noticed and not have to compete against what would likely be bigger, more robust, and more marketable releases from third party developers and MS themselves. Do these guys really want to compete against Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Battlefield 1943 and Shadow Complex? They'll get swallowed.

The Community games section is for hobbyists and amateur devs, it is not for proffessional developers nor is a place to make money. We are talking about real developers that are in a small, indie team and that get paid like any dev from a big studio. Indie devs are the people that Audiosurf, or Mount & Blade, or Zeno Clash, etc...

Indie developers have been the ones that have done original things, and spurred a tremendous amount of creativity that we stopped seeing in big studios and publishers. What Microsoft is doing is take from indie devs and give to the big publishers, in order to satisfy the publishers, but it will hurt the ones that need support the most.

I mean, publishers are releasing remakes that don't even add anything to the experience, games that have no originality. Hell, maybe Audiosurf or Zeno Clash will never come to the Xbox 360 because of them.


Well you just cherry picked 3 of the best indie games. A lot of indie games have unique ideas, but tend to lack a quality you find from major developers. My concern isn't who develops the games, I just want MS to focus on adding quality games. And I definitely feel XBLA is getting much better games than it did in the past.

senortaco on 14 July 2009
bdbdbd said:
halil23 said:
*looks at my sig* ahhh another plus reasons.

Anyway, wonder if Nintendo & Sony has similar limits? (I doubt though)



I don't know about Sony, but Nintendo isn't selling you the dev kit unless you have a office address, so it's kind of yes and no.

I believe I read somewhere too that Nintendo puts a threshold on sales before you recieve payment, but it's flexible, either way you better be sure your game is good enough to sell to the threshold...



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senortaco on 14 July 2009

Just to clarify for the people you're talking the 2D Boy's of the world right Shio?



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...Imagine how boring the interweb would be if everyone thought logically?

ironman on 14 July 2009

Wow, guys, This is a GOOD thing. MS will probably only let the better devs in, so, if you are a dev, you will work hard to have a better game than everybody else. Also, the Better games won't get losty in a sea of crappy games that people will have to walk through just to find the good ones. That would hurt all the devs because most people won't have the patience to wade through the crap to find the gold.



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Strategyking92 on 14 July 2009

well, I don't want shit on the XBLA.... What's why they let the indie developers put them in the indie games section
The basic difference are achievements, and devs. could exploit that to sell games (like one 200 gs achievement for STARTING THE GAME)
It's only rarely that games like avatar get out... and nobody wants the achievement whores to get too many freebies! You have to work for achievements!



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senortaco on 14 July 2009
ironman said:
Wow, guys, This is a GOOD thing. MS will probably only let the better devs in, so, if you are a dev, you will work hard to have a better game than everybody else. Also, the Better games won't get losty in a sea of crappy games that people will have to walk through just to find the good ones. That would hurt all the devs because most people won't have the patience to wade through the crap to find the gold.

Thing is find me a DEV that doesn't think they are a BETTER dev...The problem is Microsoft is only going to go with the 35 or so devs/games that THEY deem worthy. You never KNOW how an idea will perform in the marketplace, but as long as you have it IN the marketplace you have a shot.



The Interweb is about overreaction, this is what makes it great!

...Imagine how boring the interweb would be if everyone thought logically?

Onyxmeth on 14 July 2009
shio said:
Onyxmeth said:

I don't see why these complainers can't merely jump into the Community games section. If the release is very good, it will get bumped up to the most popular, and it will garner more attention and sales that way, so next release MS may be more willing to allow their big project into XBLA itself. It's called earning their place, and yes it may take a release or two to get to hang with the big boy publishers. This is why they created XNA in the first place, so indy studios had their own avenue to get noticed and not have to compete against what would likely be bigger, more robust, and more marketable releases from third party developers and MS themselves. Do these guys really want to compete against Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Battlefield 1943 and Shadow Complex? They'll get swallowed.

The Community games section is for hobbyists and amateur devs, it is not for proffessional developers nor is a place to make money. We are talking about real developers that are in a small, indie team and that get paid like any dev from a big studio. Indie devs are the people that Audiosurf, or Mount & Blade, or Zeno Clash, etc...

Indie developers have been the ones that have done original things, and spurred a tremendous amount of creativity that we stopped seeing in big studios and publishers. What Microsoft is doing is take from indie devs and give to the big publishers, in order to satisfy the publishers, but it will hurt the ones that need support the most.

I mean, publishers are releasing remakes that don't even add anything to the experience, games that have no originality. Hell, maybe Audiosurf or Zeno Clash will never come to the Xbox 360 because of them.

Here's an idea. Find me 35 titles per year from indy developers on the 360 that are of Audiosurf, Zeno Clash and Mount & Blade quality and then we'll talk about this. Until then, I see 35 as a perfectly acceptable number since there are probably no more than 5 genuinely great indy titles per year from indy devs to begin with. Frankly, I can count the total number of indy titles on XBLA that are of Audiosurf quality on one hand, and I won't lift every finger, trust me.



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