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Forums - PC - Planning on buying new Gaming PC need help from the Chartz

Squilliam on 29 June 2009
TheThunder said:
but Squilliam thee MOBO and CPU are $200 together vs $160 CPU + $95 dollar MOBO so it's a great deal tbh

and about the GPU I want to buy something that I don't really have to upgrade for a long time (maybe till the next gen of consoles hit or something) when are the new AMD cards are coming and how much are they gonna cost from in your opinion ??

and BTW what about the differences between XFX and DIAMOND ... etc ??

XFX has a better warranty, I would say they are the better brand overall from reputation.

The new Direct x 11 (the cards you're looking at are 10) cards from AMD will definately be here between now and Windows 7 release so you could hold off on the purchase of the GPU until then and get everything else now right? Direct X 11 is important because not only will you get a faster card overall, Direct X 11 will produce better visuals and require less performance than a direct X 10 card would to do the same. They should cost $250-$300 for a top end card and $150-200 for a mid -> high end card.

 



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ph4nt on 29 June 2009

I think it will be a while before games actually start utilizing DX 11.

It seems you want to be playing WoW, in that case I'd go with the 4850, which will easily pump out 40+ frames on maximum settings depending on cpu.

It's very cheap (I found one for $95). It will tie you over for a long time until the new cards come out and drop in price.

You can never future proof a computer, whatever GPU you buy now will be outdated within a year, so hold out as long as you possibly can until you actually get a game that requires a beefy GPU, THEN go for the powerful card, buying one now when you can wait 6 months and get it for half price is a waste.

Less focus on future proof more focus on now, look at the games you will be playing within the forseeable future, if they aren't graphics intensive, don't buy it. the 4850 is enough for any game currently out there at reasonable settings.

Also you said you want to play Battlefield 3 at decent settings which comes out in 2011? If that's the only PC game you are looking forward to, you can buy the $95 4850 today to tie you over, and when that game comes out you can buy the most powerful card currently available on the market as of right now for even cheaper than that.



TheThunder on 29 June 2009
Squilliam said:
TheThunder said:
but Squilliam thee MOBO and CPU are $200 together vs $160 CPU + $95 dollar MOBO so it's a great deal tbh

and about the GPU I want to buy something that I don't really have to upgrade for a long time (maybe till the next gen of consoles hit or something) when are the new AMD cards are coming and how much are they gonna cost from in your opinion ??

and BTW what about the differences between XFX and DIAMOND ... etc ??

XFX has a better warranty, I would say they are the better brand overall from reputation.

The new Direct x 11 (the cards you're looking at are 10) cards from AMD will definately be here between now and Windows 7 release so you could hold off on the purchase of the GPU until then and get everything else now right? Direct X 11 is important because not only will you get a faster card overall, Direct X 11 will produce better visuals and require less performance than a direct X 10 card would to do the same. They should cost $250-$300 for a top end card and $150-200 for a mid -> high end card.

 

but the cards will not drop until Octoberish probably and then you have to wait for it to drop in price because companies like that want to catch the first costumers with the "premium" price so you are looking at a 4-8 months time of waiting for a decent price. I've seen it happen all the time with the core 2 Duo and every new Nvidia Generation cards. I think what I'm going to do is get a decent card now and see what happens with the new cards because even DX10 took a long time before getting fully utilize and I don't think DX 11 will be that different.



TheThunder on 29 June 2009
ph4nt said:

I think it will be a while before games actually start utilizing DX 11.

It seems you want to be playing WoW, in that case I'd go with the 4850, which will easily pump out 40+ frames on maximum settings depending on cpu.

It's very cheap (I found one for $95). It will tie you over for a long time until the new cards come out and drop in price.

You can never future proof a computer, whatever GPU you buy now will be outdated within a year, so hold out as long as you possibly can until you actually get a game that requires a beefy GPU, THEN go for the powerful card, buying one now when you can wait 6 months and get it for half price is a waste.

Less focus on future proof more focus on now, look at the games you will be playing within the forseeable future, if they aren't graphics intensive, don't buy it. the 4850 is enough for any game currently out there at reasonable settings.

Also you said you want to play Battlefield 3 at decent settings which comes out in 2011? If that's the only PC game you are looking forward to, you can buy the $95 4850 today to tie you over, and when that game comes out you can buy the most powerful card currently available on the market as of right now for even cheaper than that.

no actually I'm not gonna play WOW probably my most demanding game I'm gonna play is Empire: Total War and I heard that game is a bitch to run, especially with the number of soldiers on screen (BTW my LCD TV which I'll be playing on is  1366 x 768 set so no 1080p for me I think it will make a big deference right?)

I don't know now I'm confused now between the 4850 and the 4890 the thing is I really don't like upgrading and I don't want to build future proof reg I know I can't, but I want to be able to game on it for as long as possible with decent visuals and framerate. Like I said don't care for 1080p 8xAA 16xAF after a few years

so I'm pretty much set all is left is the GPU which is a $100 deference between the 4850 and the 4890.



Squilliam on 29 June 2009
TheThunder said:
Squilliam said:
TheThunder said:
but Squilliam thee MOBO and CPU are $200 together vs $160 CPU + $95 dollar MOBO so it's a great deal tbh

and about the GPU I want to buy something that I don't really have to upgrade for a long time (maybe till the next gen of consoles hit or something) when are the new AMD cards are coming and how much are they gonna cost from in your opinion ??

and BTW what about the differences between XFX and DIAMOND ... etc ??

XFX has a better warranty, I would say they are the better brand overall from reputation.

The new Direct x 11 (the cards you're looking at are 10) cards from AMD will definately be here between now and Windows 7 release so you could hold off on the purchase of the GPU until then and get everything else now right? Direct X 11 is important because not only will you get a faster card overall, Direct X 11 will produce better visuals and require less performance than a direct X 10 card would to do the same. They should cost $250-$300 for a top end card and $150-200 for a mid -> high end card.

 

but the cards will not drop until Octoberish probably and then you have to wait for it to drop in price because companies like that want to catch the first costumers with the "premium" price so you are looking at a 4-8 months time of waiting for a decent price. I've seen it happen all the time with the core 2 Duo and every new Nvidia Generation cards. I think what I'm going to do is get a decent card now and see what happens with the new cards because even DX10 took a long time before getting fully utilize and I don't think DX 11 will be that different.

AMD typically prices their cards in the $250-$300 range for the high end (5870) which is around where you're looking to pay now. They also price their cards at $150-$200 for the mid/high cards (5850 range). The HD 4890/70/30's will probably be the HD 5830/57** range.

Direct x 11 brings 3 main things:

Tessellation -> It means that a card can output a crapload of polygons like for example Forza 3 with over 1M polygons and as the card gets weaker with time it helps more.

Compute Shader -> It means that the cards shaders can process a much wider variety of workloads for example it can speed up rendering/deconding, the games can offload physics calculations etc.

A new process node -> The cards are made on the 40nm process nodes which means more performance, less power usage. So whilst an HD4870 may have 800 shaders you can expect more for the next generation cards. AMD predicts their next generation cards will be faster than the GTX 285.

Direct X 11 is probably the most important change since Direct X 9 in what it brings to the GPU sphere in computing.



Tease.

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TheThunder on 29 June 2009
Squilliam said:
TheThunder said:
Squilliam said:
TheThunder said:
but Squilliam thee MOBO and CPU are $200 together vs $160 CPU + $95 dollar MOBO so it's a great deal tbh

and about the GPU I want to buy something that I don't really have to upgrade for a long time (maybe till the next gen of consoles hit or something) when are the new AMD cards are coming and how much are they gonna cost from in your opinion ??

and BTW what about the differences between XFX and DIAMOND ... etc ??

XFX has a better warranty, I would say they are the better brand overall from reputation.

The new Direct x 11 (the cards you're looking at are 10) cards from AMD will definately be here between now and Windows 7 release so you could hold off on the purchase of the GPU until then and get everything else now right? Direct X 11 is important because not only will you get a faster card overall, Direct X 11 will produce better visuals and require less performance than a direct X 10 card would to do the same. They should cost $250-$300 for a top end card and $150-200 for a mid -> high end card.

 

but the cards will not drop until Octoberish probably and then you have to wait for it to drop in price because companies like that want to catch the first costumers with the "premium" price so you are looking at a 4-8 months time of waiting for a decent price. I've seen it happen all the time with the core 2 Duo and every new Nvidia Generation cards. I think what I'm going to do is get a decent card now and see what happens with the new cards because even DX10 took a long time before getting fully utilize and I don't think DX 11 will be that different.

AMD typically prices their cards in the $250-$300 range for the high end (5870) which is around where you're looking to pay now. They also price their cards at $150-$200 for the mid/high cards (5850 range). The HD 4890/70/30's will probably be the HD 5830/57** range.

Direct x 11 brings 3 main things:

Tessellation -> It means that a card can output a crapload of polygons like for example Forza 3 with over 1M polygons and as the card gets weaker with time it helps more.

Compute Shader -> It means that the cards shaders can process a much wider variety of workloads for example it can speed up rendering/deconding, the games can offload physics calculations etc.

A new process node -> The cards are made on the 40nm process nodes which means more performance, less power usage. So whilst an HD4870 may have 800 shaders you can expect more for the next generation cards. AMD predicts their next generation cards will be faster than the GTX 285.

Direct X 11 is probably the most important change since Direct X 9 in what it brings to the GPU sphere in computing.

then I'll probably get the 4850 for now till I see the new AMD cards and a real game with DX 11 and upgrade and they should be much cheaper then and I found a 4850 for 123 $CAD.

how do you think Empire: Total War would run on the 4850 on a 1366x768 res?? would I be able to go High on the settings ?

so what do you think about the heating will be an Issue ??

and is 420W enough ?

The Mail in Rebate thing what is it exactly and how does it work ??

BTW thanks Squilliam & ph4nt for the help much appreciated.



Squilliam on 29 June 2009
TheThunder said:
Squilliam said:

AMD typically prices their cards in the $250-$300 range for the high end (5870) which is around where you're looking to pay now. They also price their cards at $150-$200 for the mid/high cards (5850 range). The HD 4890/70/30's will probably be the HD 5830/57** range.

Direct x 11 brings 3 main things:

Tessellation -> It means that a card can output a crapload of polygons like for example Forza 3 with over 1M polygons and as the card gets weaker with time it helps more.

Compute Shader -> It means that the cards shaders can process a much wider variety of workloads for example it can speed up rendering/deconding, the games can offload physics calculations etc.

A new process node -> The cards are made on the 40nm process nodes which means more performance, less power usage. So whilst an HD4870 may have 800 shaders you can expect more for the next generation cards. AMD predicts their next generation cards will be faster than the GTX 285.

Direct X 11 is probably the most important change since Direct X 9 in what it brings to the GPU sphere in computing.

then I'll probably get the 4850 for now till I see the new AMD cards and a real game with DX 11 and upgrade and they should be much cheaper then and I found a 4850 for 123 $CAD.

how do you think Empire: Total War would run on the 4850 on a 1366x768 res?? would I be able to go High on the settings ?

so what do you think about the heating will be an Issue ??

and is 420W enough ?

The Mail in Rebate thing what is it exactly and how does it work ??

BTW thanks Squilliam & ph4nt for the help much appreciated.

The HD 4850 is a very fast card by anyones standards. You could run Crysis on high at that resolution ultra smooth with a good framerate. I didn't realize you had such a small monitor! It can definately give you maximum settings on any and all games released right now at that resolution.

The XFX HD 4850 has dual slot cooling so it will blow the hot air out the back which means that any standard case won't overheat with it installed.

The PC Power n Cooling PSU you have there is listed as 'check' under stock status. Its a really good PSU but the only negative is that in only has 1 PCI-E 6 pin power connector meaning you cannot use a high end card. Its not such a big deal, it doesn't sound like you'd choose an ultra high end card anyway so shouldn't be an issue. Otherwise the PSU is an excellent quality unit.

Another option for the PSU is this one: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35456&vpn=OCZ700MXSP&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology#Specifications

Its 700W and its an OCZ which is another pretty good brand. Its $89 after MIR and it has an extra 8 pin PCI-E power cord so that means you can add a high end card later if you so wish and its in stock. But unfortunately the deal ends on the 30th and it'll go back to the regular non rebate $119 price.

Mail in rebate is where you pay full retail price for an item and you send away a card to the manufacturer and 4 weeks later or so they send you back a cheque for $xx.

 



Tease.

TheThunder on 29 June 2009
Squilliam said:
TheThunder said:
Squilliam said:

AMD typically prices their cards in the $250-$300 range for the high end (5870) which is around where you're looking to pay now. They also price their cards at $150-$200 for the mid/high cards (5850 range). The HD 4890/70/30's will probably be the HD 5830/57** range.

Direct x 11 brings 3 main things:

Tessellation -> It means that a card can output a crapload of polygons like for example Forza 3 with over 1M polygons and as the card gets weaker with time it helps more.

Compute Shader -> It means that the cards shaders can process a much wider variety of workloads for example it can speed up rendering/deconding, the games can offload physics calculations etc.

A new process node -> The cards are made on the 40nm process nodes which means more performance, less power usage. So whilst an HD4870 may have 800 shaders you can expect more for the next generation cards. AMD predicts their next generation cards will be faster than the GTX 285.

Direct X 11 is probably the most important change since Direct X 9 in what it brings to the GPU sphere in computing.

then I'll probably get the 4850 for now till I see the new AMD cards and a real game with DX 11 and upgrade and they should be much cheaper then and I found a 4850 for 123 $CAD.

how do you think Empire: Total War would run on the 4850 on a 1366x768 res?? would I be able to go High on the settings ?

so what do you think about the heating will be an Issue ??

and is 420W enough ?

The Mail in Rebate thing what is it exactly and how does it work ??

BTW thanks Squilliam & ph4nt for the help much appreciated.

The HD 4850 is a very fast card by anyones standards. You could run Crysis on high at that resolution ultra smooth with a good framerate. I didn't realize you had such a small monitor! It can definately give you maximum settings on any and all games released right now at that resolution.

The XFX HD 4850 has dual slot cooling so it will blow the hot air out the back which means that any standard case won't overheat with it installed.

The PC Power n Cooling PSU you have there is listed as 'check' under stock status. Its a really good PSU but the only negative is that in only has 1 PCI-E 6 pin power connector meaning you cannot use a high end card. Its not such a big deal, it doesn't sound like you'd choose an ultra high end card anyway so shouldn't be an issue. Otherwise the PSU is an excellent quality unit.

Another option for the PSU is this one: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35456&vpn=OCZ700MXSP&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology#Specifications

Its 700W and its an OCZ which is another pretty good brand. Its $89 after MIR and it has an extra 8 pin PCI-E power cord so that means you can add a high end card later if you so wish and its in stock. But unfortunately the deal ends on the 30th and it'll go back to the regular non rebate $119 price.

Mail in rebate is where you pay full retail price for an item and you send away a card to the manufacturer and 4 weeks later or so they send you back a cheque for $xx.

 

yeah I have a 32 LCD HDTV It accepts 1080p signal but it's a 720p TV and I really like it.

good to hear about the 4850 I'll be getting it then. Since we are on the subject I found something on newegg regarding the 4850

here's a XFX HD 4850 512MB for $123.49
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150337

and here is a SAPPHIRE 4850 1GB for $124.99 !!
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102837

why are they like a $1.50 difference when one has double the memory what do you think ??


and for the PSU does this one have what are you talking about ??
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182185

it's even cheaper than the one in the OP !!


and finally about the Rebate. If I buy something June 29th and of course with them shipping the product to me and everything July would have come easily, would they look for the purchasing date or the date they receive the rebate for the expiration ??



Squilliam on 29 June 2009
TheThunder said:
Squilliam said:
TheThunder said:

then I'll probably get the 4850 for now till I see the new AMD cards and a real game with DX 11 and upgrade and they should be much cheaper then and I found a 4850 for 123 $CAD.

how do you think Empire: Total War would run on the 4850 on a 1366x768 res?? would I be able to go High on the settings ?

so what do you think about the heating will be an Issue ??

and is 420W enough ?

The Mail in Rebate thing what is it exactly and how does it work ??

BTW thanks Squilliam & ph4nt for the help much appreciated.

The HD 4850 is a very fast card by anyones standards. You could run Crysis on high at that resolution ultra smooth with a good framerate. I didn't realize you had such a small monitor! It can definately give you maximum settings on any and all games released right now at that resolution.

The XFX HD 4850 has dual slot cooling so it will blow the hot air out the back which means that any standard case won't overheat with it installed.

The PC Power n Cooling PSU you have there is listed as 'check' under stock status. Its a really good PSU but the only negative is that in only has 1 PCI-E 6 pin power connector meaning you cannot use a high end card. Its not such a big deal, it doesn't sound like you'd choose an ultra high end card anyway so shouldn't be an issue. Otherwise the PSU is an excellent quality unit.

Another option for the PSU is this one: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35456&vpn=OCZ700MXSP&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology#Specifications

Its 700W and its an OCZ which is another pretty good brand. Its $89 after MIR and it has an extra 8 pin PCI-E power cord so that means you can add a high end card later if you so wish and its in stock. But unfortunately the deal ends on the 30th and it'll go back to the regular non rebate $119 price.

Mail in rebate is where you pay full retail price for an item and you send away a card to the manufacturer and 4 weeks later or so they send you back a cheque for $xx.

 

yeah I have a 32 LCD HDTV It accepts 1080p signal but it's a 720p TV and I really like it.

good to hear about the 4850 I'll be getting it then. Since we are on the subject I found something on newegg regarding the 4850

here's a XFX HD 4850 512MB for $123.49
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150337

and here is a SAPPHIRE 4850 1GB for $124.99 !!
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102837

why are they like a $1.50 difference when one has double the memory what do you think ??


and for the PSU does this one have what are you talking about ??
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182185

it's even cheaper than the one in the OP !!


and finally about the Rebate. If I buy something June 29th and of course with them shipping the product to me and everything July would have come easily, would they look for the purchasing date or the date they receive the rebate for the expiration ??

Get the better brand XFX one. Its unlikely you will ever use 512MB at the resolutions you're looking at.

Rosewill is the home brand for NewEgg. They contract out manufacturing and some of their stuff is lower quality. You'll be better off with a better PSU which is quieter and more reliable as not only can a bad PSU take itself out, it can take out everything else inside your PC. They aren't terrible they just aren't the best, very much middle of the road. It has plenty of connectors though! (As many as the OCZ)

The rebate works off your reciept I believe so no problem with the date of purchase!

 



Tease.

TheThunder on 29 June 2009

is XFX really have that much difference with SAPPHIRE we are talking about a dollar and a half for double the memory ?

will do on the PSU, OCZ it is

anyway I'm off to bed now will check your post tomorrow and make my final call. Big day tomorrow I got Algebra test also :p