like i said in my first post its your opinion.. i think its a fact that PD used more polygons on GT5 pro cars then forza 2... if you had compared forza 3 then id say you are prolly right but forza 2 looks like crap right now... i own both you can look at my gamer tag for proof.

Forza2 single handedly got me into the sim racing genre. its pretty clear that i love sony but i was never a fan of their GT series into forza 2 dropped. AFter playing forza 2 i loked at one trailer of GT5 and i was floored. So i played both JUST as much (mab a litle less) then you have and all i have to say is both are good but after playing GT5 Pro im now HOOKED onthe GT series.. I have not seen forza 3 gamplay yet but if you compare forza 2 and GT5 Pros graphics GT wins by far...

By far?  GT5:5 car models are definitely better but trackside detail is quite poor.  If you look at the reflections from the environment on the hood of the cars in GT5:P, you can see that they are VERY low resolution.  Outside of the car models themselves, there isn't anything special about GT5:P's graphics.

Forza does NOT look like crap.  Are you playing on a high-def TV?  Perhaps there is something I'm missing because the car models are very next-gen in Forza 2 -- very, very far from crap.  As good as GT5:P?  Certainly not but let's be honest here...  It's not like PS2 vs. PS3 graphics, now is it?

in the graphics department gt5p beats F2, that is a fact.

i have a 1080p sony XBR 40 inch complete with DTS surrond sound.. my setup is great.

ALL i said is forza 2 a game thats more then 2 years old looks like crap to todays standards... motorstorm, GT5 pro, fuel, dirt, killzone 2 uncharted 2 are all games that prove this.. i dont think you have played forza 2 lately lol..

JUST because I say this does NOT mean i dont like it.. i love it but its BUT is has been out done over the years.... now forza 3 looks wonderful and proves that they can get MUCH more out of their engine on the xbox.

Noticable differences between the two are obvious, GT5:P cars look good, but when you are racing, the game can slow down to a crawl when more than 4 cars show up on screen. This does not happen in Forza 2. The track environments for GT5P are sub par, and when looking through the rear view mirror, most objects don't show up at all (except the cars and the track).

The one problem I have with GT5P is the time trials. It should be one car for a specific track, not whoever has the fastest car.

This..

i understand forza 3 but part 2???? im sorry i just dont see it.

here is your answer to GT5p vs Forza2 thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M5gQIKkYYA
to people who still argue that GT5p is a demo so it doesn't count lets do:
Race Pro vs Gt5p - same price, but than again Race Pro would blown GT completely in every category outside graphics(it have more simillar content and gameplay than Forza so it's a fair comparison).

I've not noticed the slowdown in GT5:P.  I'll have to go drive in a crowd more.  The game is too easy IMO and shortly after start, I'm out in front and don't have the crowds.

"If you are a Sony fanboy and think that GT5:P somehow smokes Forza 2, move along. Go to the bank, take out a loan, and buy a clue. The Forza 2 demo is good. The game is GREAT. Better than GT5:P when all things are considered. When the FULL GT5 comes out, there is no doubt it will be an amazing game. But then so will Forza 3 so, again, just leave it alone."

Since when is your opinion fact?

It doesn't happen often at Daytona because of the space each car has, but on the Suzuka circuit, it shows up on the first turn at the start of the race. It can happen at Fuji Speedway too.