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Forums - General - All financial institutions to be run by the federal government.

HappySqurriel said:
ManusJustus said:
De85 said:

The amount of naivete in this post is baffling.   First off, banks and credit cards do not and can not prey on anyone without that person first royally screwing the pooch.  It's not the fault of the credit card company that you made more charges than you can afford to pay for, and must now pay the high interest rates that you knew you would have to pay if you didn't keep your balance current. 

Secondly, it would be great if the sole purpose of government agencies were to protect the consumers, but sadly that's not how it works out in real life.  One word: bureaucracy. 

Akuma summed things up nicely.  To put it simply, many low-skilled workers cant effectively read through a 20 page contract and completely understand all the legal and financial jargon.  Even if they realize that they are being wronged, lawyers arent a cheap and quick alternative.

"Can't read through" or "Don't read through"?

If they don't have the ability to read the contract wouldn't it make sense to provide better education, training and or services to help people understand the contract? If they are simply too lazy to do the work to protect themself and read a contract why is it anyone's problem but their own?

Even if you DO read the contract, its not like you can call them up and tell them to change the terms.  They will just tell you no.

And, not surprisingly, most credit card companies use almost identical contracts in terms of how favorably they draft the contracts to protect themselves, so you don't even have meaningful alternatives.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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akuma587 said:
HappySqurriel said:
ManusJustus said:
De85 said:

The amount of naivete in this post is baffling.   First off, banks and credit cards do not and can not prey on anyone without that person first royally screwing the pooch.  It's not the fault of the credit card company that you made more charges than you can afford to pay for, and must now pay the high interest rates that you knew you would have to pay if you didn't keep your balance current. 

Secondly, it would be great if the sole purpose of government agencies were to protect the consumers, but sadly that's not how it works out in real life.  One word: bureaucracy. 

Akuma summed things up nicely.  To put it simply, many low-skilled workers cant effectively read through a 20 page contract and completely understand all the legal and financial jargon.  Even if they realize that they are being wronged, lawyers arent a cheap and quick alternative.

"Can't read through" or "Don't read through"?

If they don't have the ability to read the contract wouldn't it make sense to provide better education, training and or services to help people understand the contract? If they are simply too lazy to do the work to protect themself and read a contract why is it anyone's problem but their own?

Even if you DO read the contract, its not like you can call them up and tell them to change the terms.  They will just tell you no.

And, not surprisingly, most credit card companies use almost identical contracts in terms of how favorably they draft the contracts to protect themselves, so you don't even have meaningful alternatives.

Is a credit card a necessity?

Therefore you have at least one meaningful alternative which is to not have a credit card ...

 



HappySqurriel said:
ManusJustus said:
De85 said:

The amount of naivete in this post is baffling.   First off, banks and credit cards do not and can not prey on anyone without that person first royally screwing the pooch.  It's not the fault of the credit card company that you made more charges than you can afford to pay for, and must now pay the high interest rates that you knew you would have to pay if you didn't keep your balance current. 

Secondly, it would be great if the sole purpose of government agencies were to protect the consumers, but sadly that's not how it works out in real life.  One word: bureaucracy. 

Akuma summed things up nicely.  To put it simply, many low-skilled workers cant effectively read through a 20 page contract and completely understand all the legal and financial jargon.  Even if they realize that they are being wronged, lawyers arent a cheap and quick alternative.

"Can't read through" or "Don't read through"?

If they don't have the ability to read the contract wouldn't it make sense to provide better education, training and or services to help people understand the contract? If they are simply too lazy to do the work to protect themself and read a contract why is it anyone's problem but their own?

So you're saying that these people are too lazy to get training or a degree in law and finance so if they get screwed its their own fault? 

Your remedy to people not having enough legal and financial knowledge is for the government to step in and educate them, but it makes a lot more sense just to have the government regulate bad business practices.

I'm an educated person, and I have a background in business and economics (which was required for my civil engineering degree), but before I enter into a contract that I'm not sure about I have a lawyer look at it.  Its definately worth $500+ dollars to make sure I'm safe, but not everybody is able to shell out that kind of money on every contract they dont fully understand.



HappySqurriel said:

Is a credit card a necessity?

Therefore you have at least one meaningful alternative which is to not have a credit card ...


Your argument is getting a bit ridiculous.  I cant imagine how inconvenient life would be without a credit card.  No more online shopping, having to carry large amounts of cash on you at all times, and trying to pay for goods and services where the payment is expected to be through credit cards.  Thats not to mention loans, which is the only way that many people can pay for housing, cars, tuition, etc.

I can see the pain in your logic though.  You desire for the free market to be infalliable (which actually isnt a true 'free' market since society hasn't had one since the Stone Age) so instead of going with the simple and best choice of having government regulate bad business practices, you instead opt for not letting uneducated people get credit cards and loans until they finish a government provided training course for financial and legal matters.



ManusJustus said:
HappySqurriel said:

Is a credit card a necessity?

Therefore you have at least one meaningful alternative which is to not have a credit card ...


Your argument is getting a bit ridiculous.  I cant imagine how inconvenient life would be without a credit card.  No more online shopping, having to carry large amounts of cash on you at all times, and trying to pay for goods and services where the payment is expected to be through credit cards.  Thats not to mention loans, which is the only way that many people can pay for housing, cars, tuition, etc.

I can see the pain in your logic though.  You desire for the free market to be infalliable (which actually isnt a true 'free' market since society hasn't had one since the Stone Age) so instead of going with the simple and best choice of having government regulate bad business practices, you instead opt for not letting uneducated people get credit cards and loans until they finish a government provided training course for financial and legal matters.

You do realize that most credit card companies have pre-paid cards which function exactly like a credit card?

Were you also aware that there are these things called "Banks" which offer debit cards which function like cash without the need to cary cash? These banks also offer a wide variety of loans with much better terms then credit cards do. There are also credit unions which operate in a similar fashion to banks when it comes to loans, and depending on your career may offer better terms than most banks?

The imagined need for a credit card is bullshit, and don't try to pretend that there are not viable options to not own a credit card.



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HappySqurriel said:
ManusJustus said:
HappySqurriel said:

Is a credit card a necessity?

Therefore you have at least one meaningful alternative which is to not have a credit card ...


Your argument is getting a bit ridiculous.  I cant imagine how inconvenient life would be without a credit card.  No more online shopping, having to carry large amounts of cash on you at all times, and trying to pay for goods and services where the payment is expected to be through credit cards.  Thats not to mention loans, which is the only way that many people can pay for housing, cars, tuition, etc.

I can see the pain in your logic though.  You desire for the free market to be infalliable (which actually isnt a true 'free' market since society hasn't had one since the Stone Age) so instead of going with the simple and best choice of having government regulate bad business practices, you instead opt for not letting uneducated people get credit cards and loans until they finish a government provided training course for financial and legal matters.

You do realize that most credit card companies have pre-paid cards which function exactly like a credit card?

Were you also aware that there are these things called "Banks" which offer debit cards which function like cash without the need to cary cash? These banks also offer a wide variety of loans with much better terms then credit cards do. There are also credit unions which operate in a similar fashion to banks when it comes to loans, and depending on your career may offer better terms than most banks?

The imagined need for a credit card is bullshit, and don't try to pretend that there are not viable options to not own a credit card.

Plus you can get a Visa ATM card, that works like a Visa, but is just a bank debt card.

Oh, and here are some terms for a Credit Card. I think a very small percentage of the population can't understand this. To think otherwise, is just elitist bullshit.

https://onlineaccess.mycreditcard.cc/WebApps/express?Action=Tac.jsp

There is nothing about that, that would take a lawyer to understand.



HappySqurriel said:
ManusJustus said:
HappySqurriel said:

Is a credit card a necessity?

Therefore you have at least one meaningful alternative which is to not have a credit card ...


Your argument is getting a bit ridiculous.  I cant imagine how inconvenient life would be without a credit card.  No more online shopping, having to carry large amounts of cash on you at all times, and trying to pay for goods and services where the payment is expected to be through credit cards.  Thats not to mention loans, which is the only way that many people can pay for housing, cars, tuition, etc.

I can see the pain in your logic though.  You desire for the free market to be infalliable (which actually isnt a true 'free' market since society hasn't had one since the Stone Age) so instead of going with the simple and best choice of having government regulate bad business practices, you instead opt for not letting uneducated people get credit cards and loans until they finish a government provided training course for financial and legal matters.

You do realize that most credit card companies have pre-paid cards which function exactly like a credit card?

Were you also aware that there are these things called "Banks" which offer debit cards which function like cash without the need to cary cash? These banks also offer a wide variety of loans with much better terms then credit cards do. There are also credit unions which operate in a similar fashion to banks when it comes to loans, and depending on your career may offer better terms than most banks?

The imagined need for a credit card is bullshit, and don't try to pretend that there are not viable options to not own a credit card.

So, telling me things that everybody knows helps your argument how?

I'm still waiting to hear how the government-funded finanical and legal training that you proposed is going to work, and how its a better option than a government agency that protects consumers.



ManusJustus said:

and how its a better option than a government agency that protects consumers.

Lol, a government agency that protects consumers… classic. If you want to protect consumers, you don’t need another agency, you just need better laws.

Creating an executive branch controlled organization that all finical institutions are healed accountable too, has nothing to do with consumers, and everything to do with power.



TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:
ManusJustus said:
HappySqurriel said:

Is a credit card a necessity?

Therefore you have at least one meaningful alternative which is to not have a credit card ...


Your argument is getting a bit ridiculous.  I cant imagine how inconvenient life would be without a credit card.  No more online shopping, having to carry large amounts of cash on you at all times, and trying to pay for goods and services where the payment is expected to be through credit cards.  Thats not to mention loans, which is the only way that many people can pay for housing, cars, tuition, etc.

I can see the pain in your logic though.  You desire for the free market to be infalliable (which actually isnt a true 'free' market since society hasn't had one since the Stone Age) so instead of going with the simple and best choice of having government regulate bad business practices, you instead opt for not letting uneducated people get credit cards and loans until they finish a government provided training course for financial and legal matters.

You do realize that most credit card companies have pre-paid cards which function exactly like a credit card?

Were you also aware that there are these things called "Banks" which offer debit cards which function like cash without the need to cary cash? These banks also offer a wide variety of loans with much better terms then credit cards do. There are also credit unions which operate in a similar fashion to banks when it comes to loans, and depending on your career may offer better terms than most banks?

The imagined need for a credit card is bullshit, and don't try to pretend that there are not viable options to not own a credit card.

Plus you can get a Visa ATM card, that works like a Visa, but is just a bank debt card.

Oh, and here are some terms for a Credit Card. I think a very small percentage of the population can't understand this. To think otherwise, is just elitist bullshit.

https://onlineaccess.mycreditcard.cc/WebApps/express?Action=Tac.jsp

There is nothing about that, that would take a lawyer to understand.

Not everybody can realize a good or a bad contract when they see one.  And thats not to mention that contracts are heavily biased towards the company that creates them anyways, your examples included:

We may add, change or delete any of the terms of your Account and the corresponding Credit Card Agreement (including, but not limited to, Annual Percentage Rate and fees), at any time with or without notice.

Now, I doubt American Express would screw over thousands of customers and face the public backlash.  However, I'm not entirely sure what powers that statement gives the credit card company, and what options I would have if my APR was increased to 150% overnight or if they bombarded me with fees from nowhere.



TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:

and how its a better option than a government agency that protects consumers.

Lol, a government agency that protects consumers… classic. If you want to protect consumers, you don’t need another agency, you just need better laws.


Okay, so instead of creating a government agency to control the economy, you propose creating more laws for the government to control the economy with.