but so would an HMO

An HMO is not the government.

Not providing medical care for someone based on age would be like the police not protecting some people because of age.  It's ridiculious.

I dont see how thats a socialized medicine issue.  In America's system, good doctors go to large cities where they can make the most money.  This is why large cities, like Cleveland as you mentioned, has a reputation for good doctors while there is a shortage (and lack of quality) of doctors in rural America.

I dont know why doctors in Britain would choose to live in England and not Scotland.  If they get paid the same, perhaps doctors simply prefer England over Scotland.

I've largely just read this thread because I don't want to get too dragged down by the hardcore clique of Obama-loving lefties, but I will step in and say that without passing judgement on any comments made by anyone in this thread, that is a wonderful quote.

The internet is actually a bit of a mess. Its neither robust nor efficient. Its a criss-crossing mesh of networks of various mediums and protocols, its by no means the most effecient design for a larger internetwork, just the most convenient =P. While I agree that the government is often inefficient I wouldn't put the internet down as a counter example of effeciency.

Also just to make my case, I think roading, healthcare, education, the judiciary, the central bank, the government, the emergency services, the defence forces and probably a bunch of other services I can't think of off of the top of my head should be in the public sector not the private sector.

@Kasz. Life expectancy alone doesn't show that the healthcare is worse in Scotland. There may be cultural issues with health. Afterall we are talking about the people who invented deep fried pizza, deep fried ice cream and deep fried mars bars.

Oh I very much agree Rath.  However if you read this thread you'll note my oponents have been consistantly shooting down the cultural factors argument in defense of life expectancy being a reason medical care  the US is so bad.  Despite the fact that there are many cultural factors.  If someone is going to cling to a flawed method and I can still prove my point through that method I will as it gives little room for argument.

Also I could always quote National Health studies that prove Scotland Hospitals are worse... i'm just being lazy.

I've done a lot of research on Healthcare as I want a working fair system.

@Kasz. I would argue that the standard of healthcare in the USA is indeed higher, but I do not like the fact that it is not entirely accessible. Socialising healthcare would cause the average standard of healthcare to drop but it would also cause the number of people with access to healthcare to increase. Its a tradeoff that I definately think is worthwhile and the statistics back it up (see the link down the bottom).

So yes, medical care in the USA is very good, but only for those who actually have access to it. For those who don't, medical care in the USA is rubbish.

Thats why the World Health Organisation ranks the USA so low;

http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html

The USA spends the most per capita, has the fastest responsiveness but its healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world and overall health is ranked 72nd. Only the last statistic takes into account the cultural factors.

This is why the USA is ranked behind almost every country in Western Europe.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


Thats probably all already been argued in this thread but I really can't be bothered reading through pages of arguments on the internet.

Well the main problem with the WHO's ranking system is that you could have a health system in which everyone is perfectly taken care of and still end up ranking too low.

That and the parts that are based on health are self reporting on how healthy you "feel."

Which makes the one useful part of the entire survey useless due to cultural differences. 

Because how you "feel" is largely based on your culture.  Poll Moscow and Pittsburgh about how big lines are at their local Mcdonalds based on how they "feel" about it and you'd come to the conclusion that the lines in Pittsburgh are much longer.

The truth is... the lines for Mcdonalds in Moscow are some of the longest in the world.  By design.  They used to have giant McDonalds with no waiting... but people would walk in and walk out... because if there wasn't a line... it must not be worth it.  Or at least that was the thought broguht on to people who lived during the communist era.

They closed up 3/4ths of their lines... and suddenly their buisness boomed.  Ok.  Got sidetracked... but i love that story.  You get my point.

People in the US more then anywhere else in the world are told they are unhealthy, from everyone and everywhere basically... News media and commercials and all.

Can you show me how you could have a perfect system and a low rank please?

70%+ of the 15 or so methods they have involve nothing to do with health.

If the health system made sure nobody died when they didn't have too... yet they're doctors weren't healthy and some people paid more then others due to different choices in insurance... and everyone in your culture was thought to believe they were unhealthy in some way... you'd rank well below average.