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Forums - General - Hows the economy doing?

akuma587 said:
HappySqurriel said:
 

Higher interest rates are always a direct consequence of higher inflation ...

If the yields available in the bond market do not keep pace with inflation investors pull their money out of the bond market and put it into other investments (stocks, commodities, and real-estate) that have an intrinsic value and therefore increase in value along with inflation. After this money leaves the market the prices of bonds fall, which results in a higher yield and (therefore) higher interest rates.

The growth of China's economy along with the Chineese peg on the American dollar has allowed the Federal reserve to keep interest rates artificially low and the American government to have very large deficits for decades without facing the consequences related to these actions. If the peg is moved or removed the American dollar will fall to a level which could cause other countries to dump some or all of their foreign holdings of American dollars; and this would probably result in the American dollar falling further and more countries dumping their reserves of American dollars. Overnight the American people could be facing hyper inflation

So...wait...are you actually arguing that the yuan-dollar peg is a good thing for the American dollar? Supporting manipulation of the free market? If there has been one thing that has artificially increased our obscene trade deficit, it is this peg. This has caused the U.S. dollar to depreciate without normalizing the balance with a reflection of an appreciation in China's currency. If China's currency was allowed to fluctuate naturally, it would cause their currency to appreciate. That it turn would increase demand for the U.S. dollar (by increasing Chinese demand for U.S. exports and decreasing U.S. demand for Chinese exports) and level out some of the consequent depreciative effect.

Once again, the link between depreciation and inflation is not direct. The value of the dollar can depreciate while also deflating at the same time (like it is right now). Fluctuations in the commodities market could also have some consequences on this debate as well, as I think it is hard to predict where commodities will go in the near to mid future. Oil, for instance, may continue to rise or may plummet again.

You are also assuming that all country's economies will be growing at equal rates at these speculative dates you are talking about in the future. If the U.S.'s economy emerges out of the recession stronger and faster than other countries (which many signs suggest it will), it will increase tax revenues and offset a significant portion of the national debt relative to GDP while other countries are still in the doldrums of a recession. This can have a major effect on currency markets.

Too many of you are looking at this from only one angle. China, for instance, has an incentive to KEEP purchasing U.S. debt because if the dollar depreciates, that means that the amount of revenue it will gain from the U.S. purchasing its exports (pretty much the primary reason its economy has been growing so steadily) will significantly dry up, thereby causing significant contractions in Chinese exports. Why do you think they put the yuan-dollar peg on their currency in the first place?

I'm not saying that the Yuan - American Dolar peg is a good thing as much as moving or removing it at the current time would be very bad ...

Look at it from another perspective, many other countries around the world have had to pay more to service their debt than the United States has even though their debt was smaller because the Yuan - American Dolar peg kept interest rates for government bonds low. When one currency is pegged to another and its pegged value is worth less than its "real" value the centeral bank of that country builds up large cash reserves of the money it is pegged to in order to preserve the exchange rate. China has taken their built up American Dollar reserves and heavily invested in US bonds which has kept the demand for these bonds high, and therefore the price of the bond has remained high and the yield has remained low.

When the Chinese Yuan to American Dollar peg is moved or removed there will be hundreds of billions of dollars of American debt that won't be purchased because China won't be building up massive cash reserves to preserve a peg, and this money can (therefore) not be invested in the bond market. Now what happens to the United States when the growth of debt, and the increase in cost of that debt, pushes the federal debt to be 33% to 50% of the federal budget?

 

A year from today oil prices will be much higher than they are today ... In order to maintain Oil Production today there needs to be large investments in exploration and development because we need new wells to over-come the fact that most oil fields are steadily decreasing in production; at the same time, in order to increase oil production there needs to be a lot of money put into R&D of unconventional oil because we have (mostly) found and are pumping the easy to access inexpensive oil around the world. Exploration, research and development has essentially stopped today which means that it is unlikely we will maintain current production levels for long. The only question people have over the price of oil a year from now is whether it will be $125 or $250 a barrel.

 

By the way, it is likely that countries that have been fiscally well managed and develop products that are exported and have high demand around the world will be the first ones out of this recession (Canada and Austrailia come to mind); and countries which export far less than they import, and have been poorly fiscally managed will be the last out of this recession (United States and the UK come to mind).



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TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
From a lot of the information I have looked at, the UK is actually in the best position of all the EU nations in spite of people recently freaking about government spending there as excessively wasteful.

Your kidding right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states

They are not the worst, but sure as hell not the best.

Actually they are one of the worst.  They are one of two countries that could go bankrupt.  The UK is in a much worse position then the US.



Kasz216 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
From a lot of the information I have looked at, the UK is actually in the best position of all the EU nations in spite of people recently freaking about government spending there as excessively wasteful.

Your kidding right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states

They are not the worst, but sure as hell not the best.

Actually they are one of the worst. They are one of two countries that could go bankrupt. The UK is in a much worse position then the US.

Latvia is almost going bankrupt, but they're now cutting their budget in order to qualify for EU loans which will save their asses.

 



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NJ5 said:
Kasz216 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
From a lot of the information I have looked at, the UK is actually in the best position of all the EU nations in spite of people recently freaking about government spending there as excessively wasteful.

Your kidding right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states

They are not the worst, but sure as hell not the best.

Actually they are one of the worst. They are one of two countries that could go bankrupt. The UK is in a much worse position then the US.

Latvia is almost going bankrupt, but they're now cutting their budget in order to qualify for EU loans which will save their asses.

 

Ok, one of three countries to go bankrupt... to be honest i've only been paying attention to the big countries.  The UK has a lot of external debt.  It's really the "trap" there in though... and shows why the UK needs to intervene.

The UK system is much more regulated... so if they fail, the UK is responsible for just about all the debt the banks have... etc.

It's a nasty situation.



@Kasz216: So you meant UK and what other EU country?



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NJ5 said:
@Kasz216: So you meant UK and what other EU country?

Didn't actually mean EU country though that's what i replied too.  The other country i'd be worried about is in Europe but not an EU country.  Switzerland.  It really depends on how eastern europeon countries handle... since the swiss have a lot of money invested there.

The EU have even taken this to their advantage recently to make Switzerland make some changes in their banking policies.

 



I see, for a moment I thought you might be talking about Spain, as I've heard their unemployment is terrible (though I never heard they're at risk of bankruptcy).



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Erm, Kasz, I don't know how the country could go bankrupt - yes, we have a lot of external debt: but that debt all has contracts, and as such, we cannot be forced to pay it before the end of the contract.

It's like getting a mortgage, you have to pay it back over a certain number of years - the bank can't just demand that you pay back the mortgage now.

When it comes to debt, it's not the people with the debt that are taking any risks, it's the people lending the money out.

All the UK needs to be able to do is pay the interest on the debt, if it can do that, the people lending the money will be fine with it, and actors will still be willing to lend more. When it comes to these things, it doesn't matter how much debt you previously had, it depends on whether you can afford the interest on the new debt.

In the long run, yes, it will have a negative effect on our standard of living (relatively, that is, we can still improve our standard of living, but not as the same rate as the people who lent us the money in the first place), but in the short run, which is what this recession is all about, having the debt is beneficiary.

btw, the UK's economy is the best in the EU, atm, and many economists are in agreement about this, now.



SamuelRSmith said:
but in the short run, which is what this recession is all about, having the debt is beneficiary.

Are you trying to say that being in debt during a recession is a good thing? If so, why?



When it comes to debt, it's not the people with the debt that are taking any risks, it's the people lending the money out.


This is true to a certain extent, but if you default on your debt good luck finding new suckers to prop you up.

 



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