these games are not even out yet for cryin out loud.

You and me both brother.

OT: As long as Sony fans and fanboys continue to respond to this, they should continue spouting off, as it is an effective method of advertising. Forza is all over the world wide web. The day that they stop talking is when no one cares anymore. If you think Forza 3 is no competition to GT5, ignore it and eventually they'll go away.

Funny how these guys weren't slamming Sony with their infamous this generation doesn't start to the PS3 is released hype. Its about time Sony got some smack talk PR back as they've done enough off it over the years. The simple fact is many fans of other consoles have the maturity to ignore those idiotic statements instead of getting upset like the fanboys in this thread have.

How about Sony stops talking bullshit about the wii and that ps3 will steal all wii owners blablabla. Seriously, Sony does the same and a lot more, but it's always against Nintendo.

Maybe you are just kinda gay

My view is the following:

Arcade racers:

hydro thunder

mario kart

Sim racers:

Forza, PGR, GT

But apparently GT = RACING TRAINER to you.

Jesus christ dude, get back to reality.

PGR is considered a sim? That's new.

By your standard, you should add GRID/NFS to the sim list too.

dude you missed Burnout, king of Arcade Racers

Cherrypick all you want.

I truly don't give a fuck about racing sims at all, but let's be serious for a second here. To call Gran Turismo a racing sim, or to act like Gran Turismo even approaches realism, is mentally bankrupt. Any "racing sim" where your car exists in a bubble of force that prevents collisions or damage is not a "sim" at all, it is a pile of bullshit. Watching fanboys jump to the defense of Gran Turismo and talk about how realistic and awesome it is, as if they spend the time they aren't playing games or acting like douchebags on forums driving around in their sports car at 180 mph, makes me want to vomit.

Like I said, I wouldn't play Gran Turismo or Forza if you paid me, so I have absolutely no vested interest in this discussion, I'm just sick and tired of reading the same bullshit threads on this forum every single day, filled with the same worthless tools acting like they are fucking Mario Andretti.

Here is the bottom line: if you think a racing game where your car is immune to damage is anything even APPROACHING a sim, you should be forced to go through life in a helmet for your own safety, and should be castrated so that you can never have children as fucking stupid as you are. Mario Kart is closer to a racing sim than Gran Turismo is, because at least in Mario Kart there are negative consequences to running into things at high speeds.

In conclusion: if any of you tools actually owned a high performance automobile, or had any fucking clue whatsoever about the physics of driving such a car at extreme speeds, you would not be on VGChartz engaging in console-driven flame wars about racing games, you would be driving those cars or at the jobs which allowed you to pay for them, so spare us your meaningless armchair thesis on the subject of realism please. And if you think a game with damage-immune cars is at the forefront of realism, you're probably too stupid to even read this, so I probably just wasted my time.