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Forums - Microsoft - Exposed: Natel Milo smoke and mirrors by Peter Molyneux

My impressions of Milo and Natal are that they're interesting concepts that over the next 20 years, as the technology develops, people learn how to take advantage of the technology, and it is combined with other systems, will revolutionize gaming. At the same time, I think that many people saw the Milo/Natal demo and believed that Microsoft was promising/delivering this product from 20 years in the future today; and are either unwilling to realize that what is delivered will have its own flaws and challenges, or see any flaw or challenge presented as Microsoft lying to them.

 

 



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HappySqurriel said:

My impressions of Milo and Natal are that they're interesting concepts that over the next 20 years, as the technology develops, people learn how to take advantage of the technology, and it is combined with other systems, will revolutionize gaming. At the same time, I think that many people saw the Milo/Natal demo and believed that Microsoft was promising/delivering this product from 20 years in the future today; and are either unwilling to realize that what is delivered will have its own flaws and challenges, or see any flaw or challenge presented as Microsoft lying to them.

 

 

But if the woman who interacted with Milo, for the first time, was able to do it perfectly. And with Microsoft touting so many journalists saying that Milo was real, aren't they saying that the product is real and functional?



Akvod said:
heruamon said:
Akvod said:
heruamon said:
Akvod said:
heruamon said:
ROFLMAO...sony fanboys are seething with jealousy....indeed!

I'm a Sony fanboy and I'm not jealous. I'm more creeped out about making a little boy a plaything (whether or not you're already a mother or not) than the ultra violence (and unrealistic) violence in God of War III.

It's also wierd to think about excercise games with NATAL. Won't you think it's a bit ridiculous to even need NATAL when you're asked to do free weight activities with no equipment (push ups, crunches, etc).

LOL...I'm glad that you're a siftware engineer and have figured out these serious flaws in Natal...I'm not really sure WHY a sony fanboy would be concerend about it, when you'd think sony fanboys would be worried about how to keep the ps3 from laggin even further behind Wii and 360.  If they would have used an adult man...there would have ben gripes there as well, and on and on.  It was a TECH DEMO...to show what the system can do, not some attempt to say they had created AI...WHO the heck even hinted at that by M$?  AI...WTF...are people THAT stupid!

What flaws did I talk about? I think NATAL works awesomely, and that the little hiccups (like the "Bam!" thing) can easily be resolved. I was reffering to how ridiculous some of the application of NATAL is (and in genereal, motion control) for things such as exercising. I think that with NATAL the illogical need for a motion control device and a software for popular things such as fitness games are profoundly evidident. You're essentially doing what you could have done now, instead of waiting for this orgasm of technology.

I admit being a Sony fanboy, but you're the one making assumptions and being irrational. Please, being a fanboy doesn't mean you share the same opinions/tendancies of fellow fanboys. Fanboys only mean that you're a pationet (sp?) fan of something/body.

I'm using the EA Active, and it was REALLY effective at Cardio, but I didn't get to weight training, and I'm not sure there is one...but the elastic band is effect, and it could help simulate weight lifting...jsut on a resistance level.

Were one of the HUGE advantage of Natal is ducking and cover in Shooters, and even reloading weapons.  In a game like Mass Effect, and if you've not played it or any of the KOTR games, NATAL would be perfect for non-combat NPC exhanges...absolutely perfect!  Even some as trivial as looking in your inventory...

Again, that's why I said that with NATAL (not EA Active) it's profoundly evident how ridiculous something like a NATAL fitness would be. At least with the EA Active you have physical resistence bands (although you didn't need to buy the game for it...), but with NATAL you're literally doing exercises you can do, right now, on the floor.

Again, let me emphasize that I said "Some", not all uses. I think that NATAL could be used for improved controls in RTSs (although not as good as Keyboard+Mouse). Although I don't dig your personal ideas about ducking and reloading (if you're a competitive player, I think you're more interested in the most efficient, (not immersive) controls.

PS: What do you mean, by "[my] inventory"?

Well, inventory on Mass Effect sucked, so I was somewhat thinking about that, and how it could have bee improved , had it been done uunder Natal...so it was for a specific case that annoyed my...



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Akvod said:
Squilliam said:

Yeah,  the whole 3d graphics rendering you see in games is one big deception. I expect you to now go off on one big thread about how game artists and programmers have been deceiving you.

Your thread awaits, go to it!

 

I'm not reffering to the 3D graphics rendering (if you read my previous posts in the same thread), but how the presenters implied that Milo has emotions, and is an actual sentinent AI.

Please don't put words in my mouth, and use straw mans.

Graphics designers also imply that games are more than skin deep illusions. I  was kidding btw, I just thought you were taking it a bit too personally.



Tease.

heruamon said:
Akvod said:
heruamon said:
Akvod said:
heruamon said:
Akvod said:
heruamon said:
ROFLMAO...sony fanboys are seething with jealousy....indeed!

I'm a Sony fanboy and I'm not jealous. I'm more creeped out about making a little boy a plaything (whether or not you're already a mother or not) than the ultra violence (and unrealistic) violence in God of War III.

It's also wierd to think about excercise games with NATAL. Won't you think it's a bit ridiculous to even need NATAL when you're asked to do free weight activities with no equipment (push ups, crunches, etc).

LOL...I'm glad that you're a siftware engineer and have figured out these serious flaws in Natal...I'm not really sure WHY a sony fanboy would be concerend about it, when you'd think sony fanboys would be worried about how to keep the ps3 from laggin even further behind Wii and 360.  If they would have used an adult man...there would have ben gripes there as well, and on and on.  It was a TECH DEMO...to show what the system can do, not some attempt to say they had created AI...WHO the heck even hinted at that by M$?  AI...WTF...are people THAT stupid!

What flaws did I talk about? I think NATAL works awesomely, and that the little hiccups (like the "Bam!" thing) can easily be resolved. I was reffering to how ridiculous some of the application of NATAL is (and in genereal, motion control) for things such as exercising. I think that with NATAL the illogical need for a motion control device and a software for popular things such as fitness games are profoundly evidident. You're essentially doing what you could have done now, instead of waiting for this orgasm of technology.

I admit being a Sony fanboy, but you're the one making assumptions and being irrational. Please, being a fanboy doesn't mean you share the same opinions/tendancies of fellow fanboys. Fanboys only mean that you're a pationet (sp?) fan of something/body.

I'm using the EA Active, and it was REALLY effective at Cardio, but I didn't get to weight training, and I'm not sure there is one...but the elastic band is effect, and it could help simulate weight lifting...jsut on a resistance level.

Were one of the HUGE advantage of Natal is ducking and cover in Shooters, and even reloading weapons.  In a game like Mass Effect, and if you've not played it or any of the KOTR games, NATAL would be perfect for non-combat NPC exhanges...absolutely perfect!  Even some as trivial as looking in your inventory...

Again, that's why I said that with NATAL (not EA Active) it's profoundly evident how ridiculous something like a NATAL fitness would be. At least with the EA Active you have physical resistence bands (although you didn't need to buy the game for it...), but with NATAL you're literally doing exercises you can do, right now, on the floor.

Again, let me emphasize that I said "Some", not all uses. I think that NATAL could be used for improved controls in RTSs (although not as good as Keyboard+Mouse). Although I don't dig your personal ideas about ducking and reloading (if you're a competitive player, I think you're more interested in the most efficient, (not immersive) controls.

PS: What do you mean, by "[my] inventory"?

Well, inventory on Mass Effect sucked, so I was somewhat thinking about that, and how it could have bee improved , had it been done uunder Natal...so it was for a specific case that annoyed my...

How did inventory worked in Mass Effect? Was it like Deus Ex, or ES: Oblivion?



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Squilliam said:
Akvod said:
Squilliam said:

Yeah,  the whole 3d graphics rendering you see in games is one big deception. I expect you to now go off on one big thread about how game artists and programmers have been deceiving you.

Your thread awaits, go to it!

 

I'm not reffering to the 3D graphics rendering (if you read my previous posts in the same thread), but how the presenters implied that Milo has emotions, and is an actual sentinent AI.

Please don't put words in my mouth, and use straw mans.

Graphics designers also imply that games are more than skin deep illusions. I  was kidding btw, I just thought you were taking it a bit too personally.

I take it very personally when someone says that I said/argued something that I didn't... that's just straight out lying.



JaggedSac said:
MikeB started this stupid shit storm. What are his thoughts?

I will never know.

Thanks to the power of the drug that is WoW.



Tease.

They didn't expect anyone to believe that demo was real. It was Microsoft's over-exaggerated introduction for Natal. A conference room filled with game developers can't be fooled.

True AI will likely not exist in our lifetime. There is no way to conceivably program something to interpret and respond to the human language, along with memory and perception. Not for a very long time.



From MTV multiplayer:

"So what was technology and what was a trick? It appeared that Milo’s ability to recognize actual words is completely AWOL at the moment. Former MTVer Stephen Totilo joined me for my meeting, and Stephen’s attempts to interact with Milo resulted in mere quaint smiles and frowns. Molyneux went on to say that players must “train Milo to their voice.” That may be, but based on this demo there’s still a lot of ground to cover."

So it appears the technology (at least at this point) is not nearly advanced enough to allow just a random user to fully interact (for example a gaming friend). Possibly bad articulation or dialect will have an affect on the effectiveness of this technology, let alone if people want to play in their native languages like Japanese, German, French, Italian, Dutch, etc this may pose a far greater hurdle to overcome.

I think they should have waited a couple of years until they really have something to show to the public.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Akvod said:

I take it very personally when someone says that I said/argued something that I didn't... that's just straight out lying.

I didn't say/imply/intend anything of the sort! All I was suggesting was that you take the logic to its natural conclusion. Sorry if I wasn't explicit.



Tease.