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Forums - Microsoft - Exposed: Natel Milo smoke and mirrors by Peter Molyneux

JaggedSac said:
libellule said:
To understand EVERYTHING about the supposed amazing IA :

french ITW of Peter Molyneux (translated) :

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fr&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamekult.com%2Farticles%2FA0000077061%2F&sl=fr&tl=en&history_state0=

With regard to artificial intelligence, I suspect that Milo does not really all that said, right?

Well, the honest answer - and you know I love being boastful enough to tell you that we have resolved one of the most complex of all time understanding exactly the human voice, but of course it is not the case, otherwise we'd all be billionaires riding in Rolls-Royce in gold - is that Milo does not include the entirety of what you say, it gives you the impression, the illusion, he understands. The way it works - and it is really good that you explain it to all those who continue to believe a hoax - is that we work with a company that specializes in speech recognition called Tellme Networks (acquired by Microsoft in March 2007 editor's note) to build databases of words Milo really understands. The value of these databases is that you can talk to Milo speech without using a split-type "Come, stop, left, right" but rather normal sentences to be analyzed so that Milo can recognize one or more words before to use them. This is the first thing important. The second is that over time Milo makes a profile of the user to assimilate emotions, timbre, tone and nature of her voice to give us clues about the topic of discussion. The third important point is that the controlling party in the conversation you have with Milo: if something happens to Kate - Kate is the dog Milo - just before you begin talking, then it can be assumed without too much risk that the discussion will look at the dog. All those things mixed together with a very complicated thing called neuro-linguistic programming persuade the player that he can really talk to Milo.

Very nice find. Very interesting.  This is basically what I though they were going to be doing.

 

You're just too smart!  Glad to see this echoes my own post, in that people are seeing too much here, then going 'hoax'! too quickly.

Milo is a trick, and if well employed may be an entertaining trick that can form a good videogame.  But, spolier, all games are tricks.  They all use clever code to simulate (or perhaps emulate is the better term) aspects of reality to provide a preconceived and controlled experience.

I was very impressed with Milo - but on the other hand he's really just the latest attempt (with better graphics) to cope with a problem from the first days of text based adventure - how do you handle non-structured input?

This whole thing reminds me of a (somewhat) amusing special effects extra I watched from LOTR.  In that they noticed, during tests of their A.I. routines for the big battles, than some of the combatants seemed to be showing unusal aspects of intelligence - in that they were running away from the battle as though they'd decided they prefered an artifical life to a short one fighting.  Of course once the coders investigated they realised that the A.I. was programmed to run forward and find an enemy then fight.  And the figures shown running away indicated where some of the A.I. characters had made it right through the battle and were running frantically in search of another opponent.

Conclusion: be receptive to cool stuff by all means, but think and be sensible about what was shown, what it implies, and the fact it was clearly a controlled environment.

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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Akvod said:
heruamon said:
ROFLMAO...sony fanboys are seething with jealousy....indeed!

I'm a Sony fanboy and I'm not jealous. I'm more creeped out about making a little boy a plaything (whether or not you're already a mother or not) than the ultra violence (and unrealistic) violence in God of War III.

It's also wierd to think about excercise games with NATAL. Won't you think it's a bit ridiculous to even need NATAL when you're asked to do free weight activities with no equipment (push ups, crunches, etc).

LOL...I'm glad that you're a siftware engineer and have figured out these serious flaws in Natal...I'm not really sure WHY a sony fanboy would be concerend about it, when you'd think sony fanboys would be worried about how to keep the ps3 from laggin even further behind Wii and 360.  If they would have used an adult man...there would have ben gripes there as well, and on and on.  It was a TECH DEMO...to show what the system can do, not some attempt to say they had created AI...WHO the heck even hinted at that by M$?  AI...WTF...are people THAT stupid!



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Akvod said:
daroamer said:
JaggedSac said:
LOL. What was deceptive about it? The voice recognition, facial recognition, etc? Did people actually think they had developed the most sophisticated AI of all time?

Exactly.  Plus, Peter himself admitted the demo was using a lot of "tricks" to be able to do what it did.  That doesn't mean it was deceptive.

But if you don't admit those tricks on the spot (E3 conference), then it is deceptive.

Magicians don't need to admit they used tricks because it's already assumed that they are. In this case, it's almost like a person doing something that seems magical, and not admitting that it was only a magic trick in the end.

Yeah,  the whole 3d graphics rendering you see in games is one big deception. I expect you to now go off on one big thread about how game artists and programmers have been deceiving you.

Your thread awaits, go to it!

 



Tease.

Ε3 2005

Memento mori...



Oh lord. It seems like parties who want Natal to fail are jumping the gun on many things here. Please at least investigate the issues before posting. There is a whole world of information at your fingertips, Google or Bing it at least.

Blogs have said this cannot work without controllers, MS has stated that controller can and will be used in conjunction with Natal. This doesn't even go against what they said about controllerless gaming as those comments were aimed at the 60% that were not currently gaming.

The list goes on.



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Squilliam said:
Akvod said:
daroamer said:
JaggedSac said:
LOL. What was deceptive about it? The voice recognition, facial recognition, etc? Did people actually think they had developed the most sophisticated AI of all time?

Exactly.  Plus, Peter himself admitted the demo was using a lot of "tricks" to be able to do what it did.  That doesn't mean it was deceptive.

But if you don't admit those tricks on the spot (E3 conference), then it is deceptive.

Magicians don't need to admit they used tricks because it's already assumed that they are. In this case, it's almost like a person doing something that seems magical, and not admitting that it was only a magic trick in the end.

Yeah,  the whole 3d graphics rendering you see in games is one big deception. I expect you to now go off on one big thread about how game artists and programmers have been deceiving you.

Your thread awaits, go to it!

 

I'm not reffering to the 3D graphics rendering (if you read my previous posts in the same thread), but how the presenters implied that Milo has emotions, and is an actual sentinent AI.

Please don't put words in my mouth, and use straw mans.



heruamon said:
Akvod said:
heruamon said:
ROFLMAO...sony fanboys are seething with jealousy....indeed!

I'm a Sony fanboy and I'm not jealous. I'm more creeped out about making a little boy a plaything (whether or not you're already a mother or not) than the ultra violence (and unrealistic) violence in God of War III.

It's also wierd to think about excercise games with NATAL. Won't you think it's a bit ridiculous to even need NATAL when you're asked to do free weight activities with no equipment (push ups, crunches, etc).

LOL...I'm glad that you're a siftware engineer and have figured out these serious flaws in Natal...I'm not really sure WHY a sony fanboy would be concerend about it, when you'd think sony fanboys would be worried about how to keep the ps3 from laggin even further behind Wii and 360.  If they would have used an adult man...there would have ben gripes there as well, and on and on.  It was a TECH DEMO...to show what the system can do, not some attempt to say they had created AI...WHO the heck even hinted at that by M$?  AI...WTF...are people THAT stupid!

What flaws did I talk about? I think NATAL works awesomely, and that the little hiccups (like the "Bam!" thing) can easily be resolved. I was reffering to how ridiculous some of the application of NATAL is (and in genereal, motion control) for things such as exercising. I think that with NATAL the illogical need for a motion control device and a software for popular things such as fitness games are profoundly evidident. You're essentially doing what you could have done now, instead of waiting for this orgasm of technology.

I admit being a Sony fanboy, but you're the one making assumptions and being irrational. Please, being a fanboy doesn't mean you share the same opinions/tendancies of fellow fanboys. Fanboys only mean that you're a pationet (sp?) fan of something/body.



Akvod said:
Squilliam said:
Akvod said:
daroamer said:
JaggedSac said:
LOL. What was deceptive about it? The voice recognition, facial recognition, etc? Did people actually think they had developed the most sophisticated AI of all time?

Exactly.  Plus, Peter himself admitted the demo was using a lot of "tricks" to be able to do what it did.  That doesn't mean it was deceptive.

But if you don't admit those tricks on the spot (E3 conference), then it is deceptive.

Magicians don't need to admit they used tricks because it's already assumed that they are. In this case, it's almost like a person doing something that seems magical, and not admitting that it was only a magic trick in the end.

Yeah,  the whole 3d graphics rendering you see in games is one big deception. I expect you to now go off on one big thread about how game artists and programmers have been deceiving you.

Your thread awaits, go to it!

 

I'm not reffering to the 3D graphics rendering (if you read my previous posts in the same thread), but how the presenters implied that Milo has emotions, and is an actual sentinent AI.

Please don't put words in my mouth, and use straw mans.

I think you decieved yourself...in thinking that "Milo" was a sentient AI...WTF...did you REALLY think Lionhead had created AI in 4 months...you're kidding me, right...please tell me you're kidding me...



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

So Milo is a combination of Sega's Seaman and Oliverbot (www.oliverbot.com)? No. What people don't realise is that every Natal comes with a person who lives in your closet and controls the game from there. There are no smoke and mirrors.



heruamon said:
Akvod said:
Squilliam said:
Akvod said:
daroamer said:
JaggedSac said:
LOL. What was deceptive about it? The voice recognition, facial recognition, etc? Did people actually think they had developed the most sophisticated AI of all time?

Exactly.  Plus, Peter himself admitted the demo was using a lot of "tricks" to be able to do what it did.  That doesn't mean it was deceptive.

But if you don't admit those tricks on the spot (E3 conference), then it is deceptive.

Magicians don't need to admit they used tricks because it's already assumed that they are. In this case, it's almost like a person doing something that seems magical, and not admitting that it was only a magic trick in the end.

Yeah,  the whole 3d graphics rendering you see in games is one big deception. I expect you to now go off on one big thread about how game artists and programmers have been deceiving you.

Your thread awaits, go to it!

 

I'm not reffering to the 3D graphics rendering (if you read my previous posts in the same thread), but how the presenters implied that Milo has emotions, and is an actual sentinent AI.

Please don't put words in my mouth, and use straw mans.

I think you decieved yourself...in thinking that "Milo" was a sentient AI...WTF...did you REALLY think Lionhead had created AI in 4 months...you're kidding me, right...please tell me you're kidding me...

I told you all, that the whole point is that the detractors never thought that the AI was sentinent in the first place, otherwise why would we be arguing agaisnt it? It's very simple logic is it not? How could we say something's not real, if we didn't think it wasn't real in the first play?

I'm simply arguing that in my humble opinion, that the people who presented Milo, at the E3 conference (not in subsequent interviews, or on the floor showcases in the rest of E3), they implied that Milo was a sentinent AI, with emotions, that could be interacted with as if it were a real living boy.