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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Malstrom: "the whimper of hardcore dreams".

Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Legend11 said:
So lets see. Third-parties are already able to port games between the PC/PS3/360/Wii which have different control schemes, different architectures, different specs, etc, but will have trouble porting games in the future? If it's so difficult to port games how is it able to be done between the PC and Wii now? There will likely be just a small subset of games that couldn't be done (just like there's a small subset now) but that hardly justifies the outlandish claim Malstrom is making.

How often are games ported from 360/PS3 and the PC to the Wii? Not very often, usually Wii gets a gimped version, or gets a PS2 port, the idea that a fractured Motion control landscape will maintain a strong porting environment is extremely unlikely


The Wii gets the gimped version because of it's inferior system specifications. How on earth will a "fractured motion controler landscape" inhibit a "strong porting environment" when user input makes up such a tiny part of a games develpment costs?


A few reasons, first the controls of NATAL are very, very different than those of other gaming systems, it has no controller whatsoever, so it has to work differently than the Wii, and Sony's wand has no analog stick, again very different han the Wiimote, meaning controls will be a much bigger part in the fututre, in addition Nintendo is going to continue to have lower graphical capabilities in its sytems than its competitors, just because they want to build a cheaper machine, so again there will be differentation in that regard, also who knows what new features Nintendo's next system will have that its competitors do not

NATAL is not a complete solution by itself, most games will ignore it or use it in conjunction with the existing controler, same with Sony's new controller. Both 360 and ps3 have controllers that work for now and as for next generation? Any fragmentation will be more a result of differences in system specifiactions not controller input.

Mealstrom is claiming that HD gaming is only surviving because three consoles '360/PS3/PC' can be supported and once this is divided HD gaming will die bacause Nintendo is cheaper. He discounts the possibility that fragmented HD systems would see one win and take control of the HD gaming landscape. HD gamers will not move to the Nintendo until their products can provide us with the experiences we want.


Nope, NATAL and the Purple wand will more than likely become the default control schemes for the next generation consoles from Sony and MS, unless they totally fail, in which case Sony and MS will be in a bad position anyways, in addition the likelihood of one console dominating the hardcore market is extrmely unlikely, since you're dealing with the fanboys in that regard, what you will instead see is a very fractured Hardcore market which will hinder both the PS4 and 720.

And with control schemes that different controls will be very important aspect of designing a game, and will be a costly part of development



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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dahuman on 05 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Legend11 said:
So lets see. Third-parties are already able to port games between the PC/PS3/360/Wii which have different control schemes, different architectures, different specs, etc, but will have trouble porting games in the future? If it's so difficult to port games how is it able to be done between the PC and Wii now? There will likely be just a small subset of games that couldn't be done (just like there's a small subset now) but that hardly justifies the outlandish claim Malstrom is making.

How often are games ported from 360/PS3 and the PC to the Wii? Not very often, usually Wii gets a gimped version, or gets a PS2 port, the idea that a fractured Motion control landscape will maintain a strong porting environment is extremely unlikely


The Wii gets the gimped version because of it's inferior system specifications. How on earth will a "fractured motion controler landscape" inhibit a "strong porting environment" when user input makes up such a tiny part of a games develpment costs?


A few reasons, first the controls of NATAL are very, very different than those of other gaming systems, it has no controller whatsoever, so it has to work differently than the Wii, and Sony's wand has no analog stick, again very different han the Wiimote, meaning controls will be a much bigger part in the fututre, in addition Nintendo is going to continue to have lower graphical capabilities in its sytems than its competitors, just because they want to build a cheaper machine, so again there will be differentation in that regard, also who knows what new features Nintendo's next system will have that its competitors do not

NATAL is not a complete solution by itself, most games will ignore it or use it in conjunction with the existing controler, same with Sony's new controller. Both 360 and ps3 have controllers that work for now and as for next generation? Any fragmentation will be more a result of differences in system specifiactions not controller input.

Mealstrom is claiming that HD gaming is only surviving because three consoles '360/PS3/PC' can be supported and once this is divided HD gaming will die bacause Nintendo is cheaper. He discounts the possibility that fragmented HD systems would see one win and take control of the HD gaming landscape. HD gamers will not move to the Nintendo until their products can provide us with the experiences we want.


Nope, NATAL and the Purple wand will more than likely become the default control schemes for the next generation consoles from Sony and MS, unless they totally fail, in which case Sony and MS will be in a bad position anyways, in addition the likelihood of one console dominating the hardcore market is extrmely unlikely, since you're dealing with the fanboys in that regard, what you will instead see is a very fractured Hardcore market which will hinder both the PS4 and 720.

And with control schemes that different controls will be very important aspect of designing a game, and will be a costly part of the control scheme

I wouldn't worry about that, by then the Fanboys will have convienced themselves that motion control is the future and Nintendo is still garbage so not much will have changed.



aderoche on 05 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Legend11 said:
So lets see. Third-parties are already able to port games between the PC/PS3/360/Wii which have different control schemes, different architectures, different specs, etc, but will have trouble porting games in the future? If it's so difficult to port games how is it able to be done between the PC and Wii now? There will likely be just a small subset of games that couldn't be done (just like there's a small subset now) but that hardly justifies the outlandish claim Malstrom is making.

How often are games ported from 360/PS3 and the PC to the Wii? Not very often, usually Wii gets a gimped version, or gets a PS2 port, the idea that a fractured Motion control landscape will maintain a strong porting environment is extremely unlikely


The Wii gets the gimped version because of it's inferior system specifications. How on earth will a "fractured motion controler landscape" inhibit a "strong porting environment" when user input makes up such a tiny part of a games develpment costs?


A few reasons, first the controls of NATAL are very, very different than those of other gaming systems, it has no controller whatsoever, so it has to work differently than the Wii, and Sony's wand has no analog stick, again very different han the Wiimote, meaning controls will be a much bigger part in the fututre, in addition Nintendo is going to continue to have lower graphical capabilities in its sytems than its competitors, just because they want to build a cheaper machine, so again there will be differentation in that regard, also who knows what new features Nintendo's next system will have that its competitors do not

NATAL is not a complete solution by itself, most games will ignore it or use it in conjunction with the existing controler, same with Sony's new controller. Both 360 and ps3 have controllers that work for now and as for next generation? Any fragmentation will be more a result of differences in system specifiactions not controller input.

Mealstrom is claiming that HD gaming is only surviving because three consoles '360/PS3/PC' can be supported and once this is divided HD gaming will die bacause Nintendo is cheaper. He discounts the possibility that fragmented HD systems would see one win and take control of the HD gaming landscape. HD gamers will not move to the Nintendo until their products can provide us with the experiences we want.


Nope, NATAL and the Purple wand will more than likely become the default control schemes for the next generation consoles from Sony and MS, unless they totally fail, in which case Sony and MS will be in a bad position anyways, in addition the likelihood of one console dominating the hardcore market is extrmely unlikely, since you're dealing with the fanboys in that regard, what you will instead see is a very fractured Hardcore market which will hinder both the PS4 and 720.

And with control schemes that different controls will be very important aspect of designing a game, and will be a costly part of the control scheme


I was talking about the current gen when I said NATAL will not get major support. As for next gen system specifications will play a bigger factor in any fragmentation then user input which is a small part of development costs. If there is fragmentation core games are going to be developed on the system where they have the highest chance of selling well,  right now that's the 360.



Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009

Actually dahuman, that is what i'm expecting, the fanboys will actually help the fracturing, since they'll make sure that NATAL and the Purple Wand aren't complete failures, meaning they will be the default scheme for the PS4 and 720, and will make certain that porting between the consoles will be too prohibitive for most companies



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

dahuman on 05 June 2009

sigh, I just want to play good games, I really don't care how they come in the end, as long as they don't fuck it up, I'm all cool.



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Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
aderoche said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Legend11 said:
So lets see. Third-parties are already able to port games between the PC/PS3/360/Wii which have different control schemes, different architectures, different specs, etc, but will have trouble porting games in the future? If it's so difficult to port games how is it able to be done between the PC and Wii now? There will likely be just a small subset of games that couldn't be done (just like there's a small subset now) but that hardly justifies the outlandish claim Malstrom is making.

How often are games ported from 360/PS3 and the PC to the Wii? Not very often, usually Wii gets a gimped version, or gets a PS2 port, the idea that a fractured Motion control landscape will maintain a strong porting environment is extremely unlikely


The Wii gets the gimped version because of it's inferior system specifications. How on earth will a "fractured motion controler landscape" inhibit a "strong porting environment" when user input makes up such a tiny part of a games develpment costs?


A few reasons, first the controls of NATAL are very, very different than those of other gaming systems, it has no controller whatsoever, so it has to work differently than the Wii, and Sony's wand has no analog stick, again very different han the Wiimote, meaning controls will be a much bigger part in the fututre, in addition Nintendo is going to continue to have lower graphical capabilities in its sytems than its competitors, just because they want to build a cheaper machine, so again there will be differentation in that regard, also who knows what new features Nintendo's next system will have that its competitors do not

NATAL is not a complete solution by itself, most games will ignore it or use it in conjunction with the existing controler, same with Sony's new controller. Both 360 and ps3 have controllers that work for now and as for next generation? Any fragmentation will be more a result of differences in system specifiactions not controller input.

Mealstrom is claiming that HD gaming is only surviving because three consoles '360/PS3/PC' can be supported and once this is divided HD gaming will die bacause Nintendo is cheaper. He discounts the possibility that fragmented HD systems would see one win and take control of the HD gaming landscape. HD gamers will not move to the Nintendo until their products can provide us with the experiences we want.


Nope, NATAL and the Purple wand will more than likely become the default control schemes for the next generation consoles from Sony and MS, unless they totally fail, in which case Sony and MS will be in a bad position anyways, in addition the likelihood of one console dominating the hardcore market is extrmely unlikely, since you're dealing with the fanboys in that regard, what you will instead see is a very fractured Hardcore market which will hinder both the PS4 and 720.

And with control schemes that different controls will be very important aspect of designing a game, and will be a costly part of the control scheme


I was talking about the current gen when I said NATAL will not get major support. As for next gen system specifications will play a bigger factor in any fragmentation then user input which is a small part of development costs. If there is fragmentation core games are going to be developed on the system where they have the highest chance of selling well,  right now that's the 360.


Actually by next gen user inputs will be a large part of the cost as well, that's my point, NATAL is very different than the Wiimote the games have to be built completely different for it to run on NATAL vs the Wiimote, same with the purple wand which has no analaog stick. Games will have to be built very differently so there will be fractured landscape, user inputs will be a huge part of the cost when the inputs are so wildly different



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

deathcape on 05 June 2009
dahuman said:
sigh, I just want to play good games, I really don't care how they come in the end, as long as they don't fuck it up, I'm all cool.

I want that too..I want a goddamn good Jedi game for the Wii...with different fighting styles for each Jedi and different force powers..

won't happen...probably happen on the PS3 or some shit..and it pisses me off

I want 1:1 controls on my Wii...but Lucasarts will try it first on the PS3..and will see loss..and never make it again

and give us crappy clone wars games wich don't look as good as actual realistic characters..and wich has watered down gameplay..seriously



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Avinash_Tyagi on 05 June 2009

NATAL has no buttons and no sticks and no pointer, and Purple wand has no stick, so you can't control them the same as you can with the Wii, so an FPS on NATAL will be very different, if its even possible on NATAL, than it would be on the Wii or the Purple Wand



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

aderoche on 05 June 2009

@Avinash_Tyagi

Can you give me one example of a game that would work with NATEL and not with the purple wand? Lets take MW 2, say you move forward by leaning forward with NATEL and shoot by pointing at the screen and saying pew pew pew, with  the purple wand you shoot using the wand and move farting or something. Either way this would not cost alot as what you do in the game is what matters, you would need to come up with a game that could only be done on NATEL. Can you think of a mainstream game that will only work on NATEL?



liquidninja on 05 June 2009

@Avinash_Tyagi

I think you overestimate fanboyism and brand loyalty. Most people won't support a company if it doesn't have what they are looking for.

In their case they're selling well supported gaming platforms. If their platforms are failing I expect people to move on.