If I told you that the CPU in project Natal is more powerful then the CPU in the Wii would that finally shut you up over what advanced means?

Suppose we just assume that newer technology is the same as a more advanced technology, does being based on newer technology make something better? If you're looking for the fastest land vehicle for one person would a more advanced 1-Ton truck that is built on state of the art technology be as good of a choice as a Super-Bike built off of 1980s technology?

When it comes to gaming input devices, it doesn't matter if a product is based on technology from the 1960s or if something is based off of technology that comes from the future, all that matters is which system allows for the simplest, most intuitive and most expressive controls at a price that is acceptable for consumers. We know that Wii MotionPlus allows for some very simple, intuitive and expressive controls at a very reasonable price and it has yet to be demonstrated that the NATAL can even come close to matching those controls in real gaming situations.

Now you are really grasping straws. Newer technology is not always better, just look at Sony's new motion detecting setup. But when you ask me to compair a 1-ton truck to a Superbike built off of 1980s tech, it is like asking me to compair a computer joystick with a gaming controller from the 80s, it just can't be done in this application. NATAL has been played in real games by press members, and as far as the reviews were showing, it definatly was exceeding all known standards as far as console controllers go. Just the E3 demo alone (Milo is an actual game) showed that it surpassed Wii and PS3.

I don't know what video you watched, but I noticed a 1/4 to 1/2 second delay in mapping a person's movements to their avatar on screen which wasn't necessarily an awful thing when it comes to a trivial game like kicking balls but is deadly in more complicated skill based games. I also have seen no one explain how Natal can work with adventure games or FPS (or countless other game genres) which begs the question of how good is Natal in reality?

Its very easy to make simple demos look amazing 18 months to two years before you intend to release a product, it is much more difficult to make real world products that demonstrate that this technology is in any way superior to what we already have in more than a couple (very simple) applications.

Edit: I'm done for the night, and the only thing I want to say is that people are getting insane with the Hype over products that were demonstrated using very simple applications under perfect conditions (possibly with hardware which is higher quality than what will go into production) 18 to 24 months before it will be released. I'm reminded of the pre-launch Wii hype where everyone (including myself) assumed that the Wiimote was capable of the kinds of input that seem to now be possible through Wii MotionPlus. It is quite possible (and highly likely) that these expectations are far beyond what will actually be delivered, and the "Super Advanced" control systems could be only as good (or potentially worse than) the Wiimote was at launch.

And, more straws...ya get any yet? You sir have no concept of what the term "In developmental stages" means. What we saw at E3 was only a precurser to what NATAL can do. The lag times were a few milliseconds, not "1/4" of a second. The fact that they said NATAL was going to work on all 360s (past and present) and that it would be out this fall tells me that they are planning on releasing it before the hype wears off. Also, I don't know if you watched the whole MILO thing, but that, along with the ball game, were a clear testiment to how much more advanced NATAL is, than the Eyetoy and Wiimote+ are.

Obviously not, as per my last post.

@daroamer:

I see your point, and I hope you will agree with me when I say that this seems a good and amiable time to let our statements stand. My only goal was to establish the meaning of "advanced", and I agree that under that usage, you might have an argument - but like I said, I'm not an expert in that sort of thing, so I can't call it either way.

It has been a pleasant conversation.

I'm a software developer and I have full understanding of what "In development" means ... I also am fully aware that "Marketing Demo" means "lie to potential customers"

You're not getting the point, the Wiimote (Wii Motion Plus) and Playstation Eye are products that exist where developers and users have been given the opportunity to experience them in real life and we know the strenghts and weaknesses of these products. Project Natal is an in development product that has been carefully demoed to show off its strenghts without displaying its weaknesses.

Microsoft isn't going to come out and say "The version of NATAL we showed used two 1080p@60fps cameras, and the production version is going to use two 720p@30fps cameras because we can't afford to put out a $500 add on; you should expect significant delays on your input being noticed, and don't wear colours that blend with the background or use this in an environment where shadows can be projected onto the player. On top of that, the only games that are in development are Mario Party clones because none of the game developers have been able to figure out how to map any type of movement controls to the system while still allowing games that use Project Natal to work with gesture input in a meaningful way; to make matters worse, there is little third party support because developers are investing their money toward the Wii for all expanded market games because it will have a userbase of 100 Million gamers who all have motion controllers before we release our addon"

You have to concede that you don't know what you don't know, and it is impossible to judge how a product will compare to another product while it is still in development (potentially) 2 years before it will be released.

And, you fail.

The fact that you are trying to use the Write brother's plane vs, a hydrogen powered vehicle, is just sad. Thats compairing apples to oranges. Here, however, we are compairing two similar items, in the way that they are both used to controll games. So I think the more realistic argument would be, what is more advanced, the gasoline powered car? Or the hydrogen powered car. Both of these are meant to move the average consumer in a relativly cheap and fast way. The fact that NATAL deletes the need for a waggle device completely tells me that it is a true advancement, and thus it would be synonomous to the argument I listed above in the way that the hydrogen powered car would render the gasoline powered one obsolete.

Further than that, NATAL is capable of eliminating the need for a Wiimote. You don't need a tilt sensor (it sees you move, it sees you "tilt"), buttons (instead of pressing a button to jump, just jump), and if you truly need that "tactical" feedback, then you can use a prop, just scan it. Can you imagine playing Halo 3 where master cheif could fire 50 cal bullets out of a nerf gun with high accuracy?