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WessleWoggle said:

God created evil and suffering by proxy, no matter what way you try to spin it. God also states numourous times in the bible he is the source of the light and the dark, good and evil.

I really dislike it when christians ignore their own scripture, and act like god is the source of all good and neglect the fact that the bible also says he's the source of all evil as well.

Sometimes they blame it on the snake or devil... Who created the snake or devil? Sometimes they blame it on Adam and Eve. Who created Adam and Eve? Sometimes they blame it on free will... Who created free will?

Also, how was Adam and Eve's will actually free? God had to have known they would eat from the tree eventually. There is no such thing as free will, only determined will with varying factors.

Ignorant humans + Convincing snake + Magic knowledge tree  + Infinite amount of time = Eating from the tree

Generally speaking, it isn't God's fault that we do things - he has no control over what we do, and cannot necessarily know our actions.



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Khuutra said:
WessleWoggle said:

God created evil and suffering by proxy, no matter what way you try to spin it. God also states numourous times in the bible he is the source of the light and the dark, good and evil.

I really dislike it when christians ignore their own scripture, and act like god is the source of all good and neglect the fact that the bible also says he's the source of all evil as well.

Sometimes they blame it on the snake or devil... Who created the snake or devil? Sometimes they blame it on Adam and Eve. Who created Adam and Eve? Sometimes they blame it on free will... Who created free will?

Also, how was Adam and Eve's will actually free? God had to have known they would eat from the tree eventually. There is no such thing as free will, only determined will with varying factors.

Ignorant humans + Convincing snake + Magic knowledge tree  + Infinite amount of time = Eating from the tree

Generally speaking, it isn't God's fault that we do things - he has no control over what we do, and cannot necessarily know our actions.

 

 

But God put together the determining factors of the universe... The determining factors of the universe are responsible for everything, cause and effect. But I don't want to get into a determinism VS free will argument. Unless you do?



WessleWoggle said:

But God put together the determining factors of the universe... The determining factors of the universe are responsible for everything, cause and effect. But I don't want to get into a determinism VS free will argument. Unless you do?

THeologically, there is no question. Free will is the supreme power in the universe. There is no question: in the human will, God created something greater than anything else in His creation, greater than its Creator. That was the whole point of Jacob outmatching God (even though he was crippled in the process).

So, yeah. It's pretty cut and dry. There is no determinism. God doesn't know everything because He can't.



Khuutra said:
WessleWoggle said:

But God put together the determining factors of the universe... The determining factors of the universe are responsible for everything, cause and effect. But I don't want to get into a determinism VS free will argument. Unless you do?

THeologically, there is no question. Free will is the supreme power in the universe. There is no question: in the human will, God created something greater than anything else in His creation, greater than its Creator. That was the whole point of Jacob outmatching God (even though he was crippled in the process).

So, yeah. It's pretty cut and dry. There is no determinism. God doesn't know everything because He can't.

In which case God is not omnipotent.

Heh, I never realised that a common view on the God paradox was that God can, and has, created a stone to heavy for himself to lift.

 



Rath said:
Khuutra said:
WessleWoggle said:

But God put together the determining factors of the universe... The determining factors of the universe are responsible for everything, cause and effect. But I don't want to get into a determinism VS free will argument. Unless you do?

THeologically, there is no question. Free will is the supreme power in the universe. There is no question: in the human will, God created something greater than anything else in His creation, greater than its Creator. That was the whole point of Jacob outmatching God (even though he was crippled in the process).

So, yeah. It's pretty cut and dry. There is no determinism. God doesn't know everything because He can't.

In which case God is not omnipotent.

Heh, I never realised that a common view on the God paradox was that God can, and has, created a stone to heavy for himself to lift.

It's not common - it's just consistent.

And yes, the answer to that paradox is very much yes - that is humanity.



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One question I must ask, why did God create evil?



RockSmith372 said:
One question I must ask, why did God create evil?

 

 

Less boring then watching a bunch of people be nice to eachother. My guess.

Seeing people choose good over evil when they have the choice would be much more beatiful.



Why would God create anything? Why would God be bored? Why would God be capable of love, loneliness, desire, boredom, or wrath?



The Ghost of RubangB said:
Why would God create anything? Why would God be bored? Why would God be capable of love, loneliness, desire, boredom, or wrath?

Because our understanding of the Jehovah God comes from the fact that it's our consciousness that was made in His image - God is flawed and powerful and I imagine that a lot of the time He is very sad.

You can imagine that my views are not standard.



The Ghost of RubangB said:
Why would God create anything? Why would God be bored? Why would God be capable of love, loneliness, desire, boredom, or wrath?

 

The existance of a god is such a complex subject. Does have a body, or is he like the Force. Does he have things he likes or doesn't like? someone should make a forum on that!