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Forums - General - U.S. Jobless Rate Climbs to 8.9 Percent

TheRealMafoo said:

You’re preaching to the choir. I am all for leaving Iraq and letting the UN deal with it. I am also for removing our bases from almost all the countries we are in. We have an amazing global surveillance system, and bombers that can take off from the US and be anywhere in 10 hours. Protect ourselves, and let the rest of the world deal with the rest of the world. 


I am the smaller government guy.

As for the topic at hand, your argument is if we can’t stop it all; don’t do what we can to protect the laws. The same argument can be made for speeding. It’s way too costly to come up with a system that keeps every driver from speeding. This does not mean we should stop trying to keep anyone from speeding. Also, it’s a huge revenue generator.

Same could be said for enforcing immigration laws. Thousands of companies break them. We could employ 20 people who could generate millions of dollars for this country by enforcing the laws we have, and yet we don’t.

Why do you think that is?

 

Controlling speeding is substantially different as the task is purely mechanical and objective, AKA unmanned cams can do the job. Alas, inspecting business isn't on the same boat.

Answering your question, because it's obvious: business like cheaper labor. I mentioned in a previous post that one of the side effects of controlling this in a strictlier way is rising the costs of labor for business - which mean those business will either be forced to close down or move outside the states. Neither is a good outcome...

Ah lol you are coherent in your political views. Nice to know... for a second I thought you were one of those who just adhered to the republican credo, no matter how incoherent it is. Indeed, small governments are a good thing.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

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Bitmap Frogs said:
TheRealMafoo said:

You’re preaching to the choir. I am all for leaving Iraq and letting the UN deal with it. I am also for removing our bases from almost all the countries we are in. We have an amazing global surveillance system, and bombers that can take off from the US and be anywhere in 10 hours. Protect ourselves, and let the rest of the world deal with the rest of the world. 


I am the smaller government guy.

As for the topic at hand, your argument is if we can’t stop it all; don’t do what we can to protect the laws. The same argument can be made for speeding. It’s way too costly to come up with a system that keeps every driver from speeding. This does not mean we should stop trying to keep anyone from speeding. Also, it’s a huge revenue generator.

Same could be said for enforcing immigration laws. Thousands of companies break them. We could employ 20 people who could generate millions of dollars for this country by enforcing the laws we have, and yet we don’t.

Why do you think that is?

 

Controlling speeding is substantially different as the task is purely mechanical and objective, AKA unmanned cams can do the job. Alas, inspecting business isn't on the same boat.

Answering your question, because it's obvious: business like cheaper labor. I mentioned in a previous post that one of the side effects of controlling this in a strictlier way is rising the costs of labor for business - which mean those business will either be forced to close down or move outside the states. Neither is a good outcome...

Ah lol you are coherent in your political views. Nice to know... for a second I thought you were one of those who just adhered to the republican credo, no matter how incoherent it is. Indeed, small governments are a good thing.

 

Yea, I am not a Republican, I am a Libertarian. :)

As for the “business like cheaper labor”, we have minimum wage laws in this country, because as a nation, we feel peoples time is worth at least a minimum amount of tradable value. To hire someone below that mark is to value human time lower then this country feels is just. If you can’t run a business valuing your employees, then I am all for it going out of business.

In reality, what will happen is the price of good would go up and people will get paid a better wage. The best solution all around.

Your “business like cheaper labor” argument is why businesses do it, not a good argument for why Government allows it.



TheRealMafoo said:

Yea, I am not a Republican, I am a Libertarian. :)


As for the “business like cheaper labor”, we have minimum wage laws in this country, because as a nation, we feel peoples time is worth at least a minimum amount of tradable value. To hire someone below that mark is to value human time lower then this country feels is just. If you can’t run a business valuing your employees, then I am all for it going out of business.

In reality, what will happen is the price of good would go up and people will get paid a better wage. The best solution all around.

Your “business like cheaper labor” argument is why businesses do it, not a good argument for why Government allows it.

 

Sure we do, but as I said if corporations can't get their cheap labor in US soil, they'll get it somewhere else. At least if the corporation is manufacturing in US soil, some side economic benefits stay home.

By the way, if the price of good goes up nobody gets paid a better wage - customers just buy the same good made by someone else with lower costs and thus lower prices.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

Bitmap Frogs said:

 

Sure we do, but as I said if corporations can't get their cheap labor in US soil, they'll get it somewhere else. At least if the corporation is manufacturing in US soil, some side economic benefits stay home.

By the way, if the price of good goes up nobody gets paid a better wage - customers just buy the same good made by someone else with lower costs and thus lower prices.

 

Most of what this cheap labor is for, cannot be exported cheaper. It’s things like framing homes, picking fruit, Cleaning hotel rooms.

If you pay everyone more to clean hotel rooms, the cost of hotel rooms goes up. You can’t buy your hotel room from China :p



Bitmap Frogs said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Yea, I am not a Republican, I am a Libertarian. :)


As for the “business like cheaper labor”, we have minimum wage laws in this country, because as a nation, we feel peoples time is worth at least a minimum amount of tradable value. To hire someone below that mark is to value human time lower then this country feels is just. If you can’t run a business valuing your employees, then I am all for it going out of business.

In reality, what will happen is the price of good would go up and people will get paid a better wage. The best solution all around.

Your “business like cheaper labor” argument is why businesses do it, not a good argument for why Government allows it.

 

Sure we do, but as I said if corporations can't get their cheap labor in US soil, they'll get it somewhere else. At least if the corporation is manufacturing in US soil, some side economic benefits stay home.

By the way, if the price of good goes up nobody gets paid a better wage - customers just buy the same good made by someone else with lower costs and thus lower prices.

Nevermind me cutting in here but....Exactly.  Competition is the engine that drives capitalism.  Whether or not a company will fail or succeed all depends on the willingness of the consumer to have demand.  If demand is not met the you cut back.  Unfortunately, in an increasingly globalized society we are seeing the exponential effects of outsourcing.  This is in no way stalled by our capital gains taxes and 35% federal corporate tax.  We should never tax success.  If a company wants to offshore to say Ireland where the rate is 13% they have a right to.  And don't get me started on the Obama admin taxing offshore accounts as it will only hike prices on the end-users the admin wants to help...

 



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I overheard an American in the train today. He was apparantly working for Cisco systems and talking about the unemployment figures from America. He was sad to see a lot of small stores going away in Manhattan and such.

I also kind of praised the Dutch unemployment numbers. 3-4%. You can't fire people on a whim here which accounts for a very low unemployment rate.



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Esmoreit said:
I overheard an American in the train today. He was apparantly working for Cisco systems and talking about the unemployment figures from America. He was sad to see a lot of small stores going away in Manhattan and such.

I also kind of praised the Dutch unemployment numbers. 3-4%. You can't fire people on a whim here which accounts for a very low unemployment rate.

That is because Manhatten doesn't have its shit together.  They say oh what the hell lets tax the people and corps to generate revenue for NYC while companies like Cisco are packing up and leaving.  They should be cutting the tax on these major industies and employers so they can keep some big biz there.  This esp hits home in the IT sector which Cisco fits in.

 



TheRealMafoo said:

 

Most of what this cheap labor is for, cannot be exported cheaper. It’s things like framing homes, picking fruit, Cleaning hotel rooms.


If you pay everyone more to clean hotel rooms, the cost of hotel rooms goes up. You can’t buy your hotel room from China :p

 

Ah, whatever.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).