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Forums - General - Obama to Cut Budget by $17 Billion

highwaystar101 said:

So wait. It occurs to me that people are saying* "Huh, what change has Obama created" and then complain about his high-spending and socialist values...

Doesn't that strike anyone as a pretty big change rather than no change? I mean change is change and if you don't agree with it, it is still change.

*Not just in this thread, not just on this site.

 

When I say "no change", I am referring to all the things people hated about Bush. List the top 2 things you hated about Bush, and then look at what Obama has done for those three things. The overall consensus, was:

#1 The War

#2 The Economy

Obama has expanded the war effort, and is leaving troops in the maximum amount of time allowed under the bush treaties. Bush exploded the deficit and expanded government. Obama takes office, and exploded the already bloated government, and expands it.

These are the "same as usual" things we are talking about.

 

 



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akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:
Orca_Azure said:
17 billion out of a 3.2 trillion budget :p gotta love that

3.6 billion for the 2010 fiscal year...

 

Actually it is 3.44 trillion. 

The budget is going to grow to some degree every year either in real terms, based on the increase in size of the economy and the population of the country, and in nominal terms, based on increases in inflation.  So people have to take these numbers with that in mind as well.

 

These numbers should grow each year with GDP. Why then when GDP is going to drop 12%, they go up 50%?

 



TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:
Orca_Azure said:
17 billion out of a 3.2 trillion budget :p gotta love that

3.6 billion for the 2010 fiscal year...

 

Actually it is 3.44 trillion. 

The budget is going to grow to some degree every year either in real terms, based on the increase in size of the economy and the population of the country, and in nominal terms, based on increases in inflation.  So people have to take these numbers with that in mind as well.

 

These numbers should grow each year with GDP. Why then when GDP is going to drop 12%, they go up 50%?

 

That's your assessment.  Many economists would say the exact opposite, that the government's share of GDP should substantially increase when GDP drops for the health of the economy.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:
Orca_Azure said:
17 billion out of a 3.2 trillion budget :p gotta love that

3.6 billion for the 2010 fiscal year...

 

Actually it is 3.44 trillion.

The budget is going to grow to some degree every year either in real terms, based on the increase in size of the economy and the population of the country, and in nominal terms, based on increases in inflation. So people have to take these numbers with that in mind as well.

 

These numbers should grow each year with GDP. Why then when GDP is going to drop 12%, they go up 50%?

 

That's your assessment. Many economists would say the exact opposite, that the government's share of GDP should substantially increase when GDP drops for the health of the economy.

 

Well, with how many economists were claiming that the housing market wasn't in a bubble in 2006/2007 and didn't see the impending credit crisis until it had already become a massive problem do you really feel confident that economists have a strong understanding of the economy?

The economy really isn't that complicated and, much like a forest fires are needed to have a healthy forest, you must have economic downturns in order to keep your economy healthy. Government intervention to prevent companies from failing is like protecting trees with pine-beetle infestations from the forest fire; in the long run the government is doing more damage because the lack of moral hazard will lead to other companies making the same mistakes without fear of the consequences. Unemployment is like burnt trees that have collapsed on the forest floor, and when the government produces government jobs it is like taking this burnt material away from the forest to make it look neater; but the burnt material is the nutrients that lead to the forest re-growing stronger than it was before, and the unemployment leads to an affordable and motivated workforce which is necessary for the next generation of companies.

 

The health of the economy is best maintained by the government staying out of the way of people, allowing them to develop the technologies and products of the future, and to encourage them to sell their products to as many people as possible (through free trade).



akuma587 said:
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
And some of the posts in this thread have once again proved that its not how much the government spends that makes people upset, it is what the government spends that money on that makes people upset.

By any stretch of the imagination, our military spending is out of control. Bush's appointee to Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, wholeheartedly agrees.


The government should not be able to break contracts it's made... and promise to buy a bunch of stuff and not follow through on it.

That's my point.

Well that and if America's economy falls down to the level of other nations the only thing that is going to keep the US a world super power... (espiecally with the EU building up) is an advanced military.

Its just based on sovereign immunity.  The government has to expressly waive their liability for things or they can't be sued (unless something like the Constitution is involved).  Courts don't have the power to do this.  The legislature is the one who has to do it.

So if our economy goes off a cliff but we have a strong military, do you think we will still have the same amount of power?

We are designing weapons that are not even feasible or cost efficient based on today's technology, many of which will sit in storage because we aren't even using them based on the type of warfare we are engaging in.  We are building theoretical weapons to fight imaginary enemies and are going broke in the process.

They aren't imaginary.

Just because we aren't fighting conventional wars now doesn't mean we won't ever fight convenional wars again.

It's planning for the future so you aren't caught off guard.  History is littered with countries who were taken out because they weren't prepaired for a new or a ressurgent form of combat.



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akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:
Orca_Azure said:
17 billion out of a 3.2 trillion budget :p gotta love that

3.6 billion for the 2010 fiscal year...

 

Actually it is 3.44 trillion. 

The budget is going to grow to some degree every year either in real terms, based on the increase in size of the economy and the population of the country, and in nominal terms, based on increases in inflation.  So people have to take these numbers with that in mind as well.

 

These numbers should grow each year with GDP. Why then when GDP is going to drop 12%, they go up 50%?

 

That's your assessment.  Many economists would say the exact opposite, that the government's share of GDP should substantially increase when GDP drops for the health of the economy.

 

No, many economists would say we need to temporarily spend our way out of a recession by employing people to do work that betters the country. None say we need to massively increase out entitlement program permanently when we already spend more money then we bring in.

It's not rocket science. 

 



akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:
Orca_Azure said:
17 billion out of a 3.2 trillion budget :p gotta love that

3.6 billion for the 2010 fiscal year...

 

Actually it is 3.44 trillion. 

The budget is going to grow to some degree every year either in real terms, based on the increase in size of the economy and the population of the country, and in nominal terms, based on increases in inflation.  So people have to take these numbers with that in mind as well.

 

These numbers should grow each year with GDP. Why then when GDP is going to drop 12%, they go up 50%?

 

That's your assessment.  Many economists would say the exact opposite, that the government's share of GDP should substantially increase when GDP drops for the health of the economy.

 

No, many economists would say we need to temporarily spend our way out of a recession by employing people to do work that betters the country. None say we need to massively increase out entitlement program permanently when we already spend more money then we bring in.

It's not rocket science. 

 



Looking at the pie chart, I believe that China is lying about the amount of money they spend on the military. They are probably spending 4x what they are reporting.

And what do you think they're going to say if we accuse them?

US: "Hey china, you're lying about your expenditures"
China: "No we're not"
US: "Oh ok. Fine"

But anyways, yeah, I think the United States should stop "bailing out" other countries and have them take care of themselves. I'm not sure about what the WW2 treaty conditions were, but I think some countries aren't even allowed to have militaries due to the conditions.

We should take a look at that again and adjust it so the United States could cut back on their military spending.




akuma587 said:

Actually it is 3.44 trillion. 

The budget is going to grow to some degree every year either in real terms, based on the increase in size of the economy and the population of the country, and in nominal terms, based on increases in inflation.  So people have to take these numbers with that in mind as well.

 

 If not for third world immigration and illegal immigrants from Mexico, the US population would be stable instead of increasing. These groups are also high consumers of expensive social services. If we get that under control, we'll be able to get the budget under control.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

"18 billion is nothing" OBamas campaign

"Look at this 17 billion I have shuffled around thank me"



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