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Forums - Gaming - Square-Enix: "It's..natural to grow out of Final Fantasy."

deadt0m on 04 May 2009
outlawauron said:
deadt0m said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

Certainly nostalgia is part of it, but I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that if someone handed me a copy of FFIV, and I had never played it before, that I would be anything short of blown away, even today.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with technology and the story arcs.  The pre-CD run of the games didn't have cutting edge technology as a crutch, and so to make successful games they had to be fun, immersive, whimsical, challenging and engaging.  Starting with VII though, they just removed whimsy from the series completely and replaced it with awful, overwrought emo cutscenes.  The original Final Fantasy games conveyed emotion through good writing and relatable characters, and then seven replaced good writing with too-long cutscenes of effeminate men crying about things.

Put simply, I think they used to make good video games, now they make playable interludes between horrible cutscenes.

It's not too difficult. Going back playing FF4, Crono Trigger, and FF6; I honestly don't think they're all that speacial.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  I would rather replay FF4 and 6 than play 99% of new RPGs for the first time.

 



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pastro243 on 04 May 2009
deadt0m said:
outlawauron said:
deadt0m said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

Certainly nostalgia is part of it, but I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that if someone handed me a copy of FFIV, and I had never played it before, that I would be anything short of blown away, even today.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with technology and the story arcs.  The pre-CD run of the games didn't have cutting edge technology as a crutch, and so to make successful games they had to be fun, immersive, whimsical, challenging and engaging.  Starting with VII though, they just removed whimsy from the series completely and replaced it with awful, overwrought emo cutscenes.  The original Final Fantasy games conveyed emotion through good writing and relatable characters, and then seven replaced good writing with too-long cutscenes of effeminate men crying about things.

Put simply, I think they used to make good video games, now they make playable interludes between horrible cutscenes.

It's not too difficult. Going back playing FF4, Crono Trigger, and FF6; I honestly don't think they're all that speacial.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  I would rather replay FF4 and 6 than play 99% of new RPGs for the first time.

 

I dont agree with u on that, replaying RPG games is something only a few games have gotten me to do, while I do it, i do it when I dont have something new to play, that new game has to be good or at least I have to know its not garbage or shovelware.

I replay just a few rpg games, like Ive done with FF7 and KH, but I would rather play the  new FF13 or something in that order.

 

 



- Our album on spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/56mEbEgyBYGzcDyZ1eMQ1v?si=hYKgir5YRSCrzywgGmV4oQ

- Our videoclip 

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xlost8 on 04 May 2009

I guess this somewhat is important. I mean I haven't necessarily drifted away from the series. I got into the series with the help of Final Fantasy X. From that point forward I played X-2 and XI lost me and so did XII. So right now I'm just waiting for the next true Final Fantasy and that is XIII.



Kasz216 on 04 May 2009
pastro243 said:
Kasz216 said:
pastro243 said:
Darc Requiem said:
Kasz216 said:
Darc Requiem said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

Couldn' t have said it better myself Badgenome.

 

Well that's the thing too... weren't the SNES protaganists... older?

I mean it seemed that way anyway.

 

Yeah for the most part. In FFIV the whole cast were adults except for three party members and one of those three becomes and adult before the game ends. FFV and FFVI followed similiar trends with it's protagonists as well.

@Deatht0m

I have to send you a friend request after you post.

 

Well, there were no "kids" in FF7 except for yuffie. In FF12 there are young protagonists as penelo and vaan but they even seem young adults or closer to adults than to teens. Also, I cant see the "maturity" behind old FF that the newer ones dont have.

Maybe old gamers feel left out and its the kind of attitude old people have when they say "In my times...blabla", maybe the series has become better and changed and u percieve it as going to hell.

Cloud is like... 18-22 in FF7... as is basically the whole cast outside of Barrett.

Also outside of barrett.  No one in the game has any adult responsibilties or connections what so ever.

If you consider less complicated narritive and a focus on younger, less developed characters a change for the better... all the more power to you.  Your the people square is targeting.

I still think there is no such thing as the mature and complex narrative in pre 7 FF, at least not more than in the latter. Now if you think complex things can only happen to adults in a fantasy game then thats your problem.

 I just responded to someone that said that in FF4 there where "only" 3 not adult party character, and since Cloud is 21 in the game, he is an adult, barret we both have it clear, tifa is the same age as cloud, Vincent is young but still an adult, I dont remember his age though.

 I still stand that its nostalgia that makes you think all those older FF where so much better, after all, I think you werent adults when the first ones came out.

I dont see why the cutscenes are so wrong to some when they added emotional content to the game which many of the older ones lacked. Its like now being more emotional is stupid, when these games are partly art and art is about emotion. I know u will say even with the cutscenes all of the content is shallow, but if u think like that u dont see what I see in these games.

To finish Im gonna say that maybe Im a teen(18 and go to the university and all the things that people my age do) that doesnt make my mind less complicated than an older guy ones and the forms of entertainment I seek may be different to yours(they surely are) and that doesnt make it worse.

FF changed from what it was in the beggining, and thats evolving, Im affraid the thing that would make u think FF1 is better than 12 is nostalgia.

I was 15 when FF7 came out. 

So no... no it's not Nostalgia.

The stories were undeniable more complex... and mature.  I'm talking about real maturity here not.  "Hey look barret swears!"

There was a lot about FF4 and FF6 I didn't understand as a kid... and didn't get until I replayed them on my PS1 later on... shortly after FF7 disapointed me.



Akvod on 04 May 2009

I thought that most people were complaining about how FF was taking it's self too seriously... the biggest ex-fanboys of FF are wishing that the series was like I-VI and IX.

The games have only become more western, "mature", and darker. XII was supposed to be the most mature, and technically while it was, it was executed very badly (too jumbled, no focus, etc) and I'm guessing that it's one of the least popular Final Fantasies.



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deadt0m on 04 May 2009
pastro243 said:
deadt0m said:
outlawauron said:
deadt0m said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

Certainly nostalgia is part of it, but I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that if someone handed me a copy of FFIV, and I had never played it before, that I would be anything short of blown away, even today.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with technology and the story arcs.  The pre-CD run of the games didn't have cutting edge technology as a crutch, and so to make successful games they had to be fun, immersive, whimsical, challenging and engaging.  Starting with VII though, they just removed whimsy from the series completely and replaced it with awful, overwrought emo cutscenes.  The original Final Fantasy games conveyed emotion through good writing and relatable characters, and then seven replaced good writing with too-long cutscenes of effeminate men crying about things.

Put simply, I think they used to make good video games, now they make playable interludes between horrible cutscenes.

It's not too difficult. Going back playing FF4, Crono Trigger, and FF6; I honestly don't think they're all that speacial.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  I would rather replay FF4 and 6 than play 99% of new RPGs for the first time.

 

I dont agree with u on that, replaying RPG games is something only a few games have gotten me to do, while I do it, i do it when I dont have something new to play, that new game has to be good or at least I have to know its not garbage or shovelware.

I replay just a few rpg games, like Ive done with FF7 and KH, but I would rather play the  new FF13 or something in that order.

 

 

I would, too, in theory.  The problem is that, in practice, FF13 will be a disappointing heap of shit just like every other FF since they debuted on PS.   Even 9, by far my favorite from the CD era, is kind of garbage.  It's not that I refuse to try new RPGs, it's just that every single time I do I am disappointed.  Sometimes it's the awful stories like FF, sometimes it's the ceaseless micromanagement like Lost Odyssey, but nearly every console JRPG I play makes me want to die at this point.  It's not that I relish the idea of playing FFIV 100 times, it's that nearly 100% of the time I have spent over the last god knows how many years playing JRPGS would have been better spent just playing FFIV again, since at least I would have derived SOME enjoyment from it.

 



Kasz216 on 04 May 2009
Akvod said:
I thought that most people were complaining about how FF was taking it's self too seriously... the biggest ex-fanboys of FF are wishing that the series was like I-VI and IX.

The games have only become more western, "mature", and darker. XII was supposed to be the most mature, and technically while it was, it was executed very badly (too jumbled, no focus, etc) and I'm guessing that it's one of the least popular Final Fantasies.

I thought XII was a step in the right direction... just misexcuted since Matsuno left the project early.

It was like it was trying to replicate the awesomeness of Ogre Battle but just didn't get there.



pastro243 on 04 May 2009
Kasz216 said:
pastro243 said:
Kasz216 said:
pastro243 said:
Darc Requiem said:
Kasz216 said:
Darc Requiem said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

Couldn' t have said it better myself Badgenome.

 

Well that's the thing too... weren't the SNES protaganists... older?

I mean it seemed that way anyway.

 

Yeah for the most part. In FFIV the whole cast were adults except for three party members and one of those three becomes and adult before the game ends. FFV and FFVI followed similiar trends with it's protagonists as well.

@Deatht0m

I have to send you a friend request after you post.

 

Well, there were no "kids" in FF7 except for yuffie. In FF12 there are young protagonists as penelo and vaan but they even seem young adults or closer to adults than to teens. Also, I cant see the "maturity" behind old FF that the newer ones dont have.

Maybe old gamers feel left out and its the kind of attitude old people have when they say "In my times...blabla", maybe the series has become better and changed and u percieve it as going to hell.

Cloud is like... 18-22 in FF7... as is basically the whole cast outside of Barrett.

Also outside of barrett.  No one in the game has any adult responsibilties or connections what so ever.

If you consider less complicated narritive and a focus on younger, less developed characters a change for the better... all the more power to you.  Your the people square is targeting.

I still think there is no such thing as the mature and complex narrative in pre 7 FF, at least not more than in the latter. Now if you think complex things can only happen to adults in a fantasy game then thats your problem.

 I just responded to someone that said that in FF4 there where "only" 3 not adult party character, and since Cloud is 21 in the game, he is an adult, barret we both have it clear, tifa is the same age as cloud, Vincent is young but still an adult, I dont remember his age though.

 I still stand that its nostalgia that makes you think all those older FF where so much better, after all, I think you werent adults when the first ones came out.

I dont see why the cutscenes are so wrong to some when they added emotional content to the game which many of the older ones lacked. Its like now being more emotional is stupid, when these games are partly art and art is about emotion. I know u will say even with the cutscenes all of the content is shallow, but if u think like that u dont see what I see in these games.

To finish Im gonna say that maybe Im a teen(18 and go to the university and all the things that people my age do) that doesnt make my mind less complicated than an older guy ones and the forms of entertainment I seek may be different to yours(they surely are) and that doesnt make it worse.

FF changed from what it was in the beggining, and thats evolving, Im affraid the thing that would make u think FF1 is better than 12 is nostalgia.

I was 15 when FF7 came out. 

So no... no it's not Nostalgia.

The stories were undeniable more complex... and mature.  I'm talking about real maturity here not.  "Hey look barret swears!"

There was a lot about FF4 and FF6 I didn't understand as a kid... and didn't get until I replayed them on my PS1 later on... shortly after FF7 disapointed me.

 

 That makes me think u think Im stupid or something.



- Our album on spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/56mEbEgyBYGzcDyZ1eMQ1v?si=hYKgir5YRSCrzywgGmV4oQ

- Our videoclip 

- My manga: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/blanca-the-world/list?title_no=313068

Kasz216 on 04 May 2009
pastro243 said:
Kasz216 said:
pastro243 said:
Kasz216 said:
pastro243 said:
Darc Requiem said:
Kasz216 said:
Darc Requiem said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

Couldn' t have said it better myself Badgenome.

 

Well that's the thing too... weren't the SNES protaganists... older?

I mean it seemed that way anyway.

 

Yeah for the most part. In FFIV the whole cast were adults except for three party members and one of those three becomes and adult before the game ends. FFV and FFVI followed similiar trends with it's protagonists as well.

@Deatht0m

I have to send you a friend request after you post.

 

Well, there were no "kids" in FF7 except for yuffie. In FF12 there are young protagonists as penelo and vaan but they even seem young adults or closer to adults than to teens. Also, I cant see the "maturity" behind old FF that the newer ones dont have.

Maybe old gamers feel left out and its the kind of attitude old people have when they say "In my times...blabla", maybe the series has become better and changed and u percieve it as going to hell.

Cloud is like... 18-22 in FF7... as is basically the whole cast outside of Barrett.

Also outside of barrett.  No one in the game has any adult responsibilties or connections what so ever.

If you consider less complicated narritive and a focus on younger, less developed characters a change for the better... all the more power to you.  Your the people square is targeting.

I still think there is no such thing as the mature and complex narrative in pre 7 FF, at least not more than in the latter. Now if you think complex things can only happen to adults in a fantasy game then thats your problem.

 I just responded to someone that said that in FF4 there where "only" 3 not adult party character, and since Cloud is 21 in the game, he is an adult, barret we both have it clear, tifa is the same age as cloud, Vincent is young but still an adult, I dont remember his age though.

 I still stand that its nostalgia that makes you think all those older FF where so much better, after all, I think you werent adults when the first ones came out.

I dont see why the cutscenes are so wrong to some when they added emotional content to the game which many of the older ones lacked. Its like now being more emotional is stupid, when these games are partly art and art is about emotion. I know u will say even with the cutscenes all of the content is shallow, but if u think like that u dont see what I see in these games.

To finish Im gonna say that maybe Im a teen(18 and go to the university and all the things that people my age do) that doesnt make my mind less complicated than an older guy ones and the forms of entertainment I seek may be different to yours(they surely are) and that doesnt make it worse.

FF changed from what it was in the beggining, and thats evolving, Im affraid the thing that would make u think FF1 is better than 12 is nostalgia.

I was 15 when FF7 came out. 

So no... no it's not Nostalgia.

The stories were undeniable more complex... and mature.  I'm talking about real maturity here not.  "Hey look barret swears!"

There was a lot about FF4 and FF6 I didn't understand as a kid... and didn't get until I replayed them on my PS1 later on... shortly after FF7 disapointed me.

 

 That makes me think u think Im stupid or something.

No.  I think that you... like a lot of other people of my generation and younger have an erronous definition of "maturity"... of which people often define it as things that are "more dark", "more serious." where "bad things happen.".

Do not mistake maturity with "Mature themes."



loy310 on 04 May 2009

LOL, nice try SE, but NOooooo, I don't think so, the truth is you guys have been destroying the FF series since FF10.