By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Square-Enix: "It's..natural to grow out of Final Fantasy."

deadt0m on 04 May 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
deadt0m said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

 

 

Certainly nostalgia is part of it, but I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that if someone handed me a copy of FFIV, and I had never played it before, that I would be anything short of blown away, even today.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with technology and the story arcs.  The pre-CD run of the games didn't have cutting edge technology as a crutch, and so to make successful games they had to be fun, immersive, whimsical, challenging and engaging.  Starting with VII though, they just removed whimsy from the series completely and replaced it with awful, overwrought emo cutscenes.  The original Final Fantasy games conveyed emotion through good writing and relatable characters, and then seven replaced good writing with too-long cutscenes of effeminate men crying about things.

Put simply, I think they used to make good video games, now they make playable interludes between horrible cutscenes.

 

 

So basically what you're saying is with the coming of more powerful hardware, SE became spoiled trying to give a visual show, rather than focusing on the storyboards and scripts.

Precisely.



Around the Network
Kasz216 on 04 May 2009
deadt0m said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
deadt0m said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

 

 

Certainly nostalgia is part of it, but I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that if someone handed me a copy of FFIV, and I had never played it before, that I would be anything short of blown away, even today.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with technology and the story arcs.  The pre-CD run of the games didn't have cutting edge technology as a crutch, and so to make successful games they had to be fun, immersive, whimsical, challenging and engaging.  Starting with VII though, they just removed whimsy from the series completely and replaced it with awful, overwrought emo cutscenes.  The original Final Fantasy games conveyed emotion through good writing and relatable characters, and then seven replaced good writing with too-long cutscenes of effeminate men crying about things.

Put simply, I think they used to make good video games, now they make playable interludes between horrible cutscenes.

 

 

So basically what you're saying is with the coming of more powerful hardware, SE became spoiled trying to give a visual show, rather than focusing on the storyboards and scripts.

Precisely.

It makes me wonder though... did they get spoiled.  Or did they just decide to not focus on that stuff on purpose.

I mean for example take Matsuno for example.  When he made FFT.  He intentionally dumbed it down so it would be more popular because "people don't like and aren't interested in complicated stories."

 

Of course FFT actually was fairly complex... but you know.   It's simple by his standards.

Perhaps that was just the design philosphy conferred opon him by the higher ups... specifically Wada.  Dumb it down... make it more cliche, more understandable... more "comforting".

When you think about it.  FFV is seen as the worst of the SNES three... and it's story is also the most simple... and would seem to fit within the later series.  I mean...

Spoilers:

"We've got this guy... who is the hero fabled to save the world.  But he doesn't know why.   And he's going to meet this princess... and they're going to work together... with this old guy... who is also a legendary hero... but he doesn't remember!  And he will remember but he'll die.  Also... the princess has a long lost sister.  The villian is some guy who's evil... largely just because he's evil." and he hates everyone.

 



Jo21 on 04 May 2009

thats hard, FF each game it's a unique experience.

i find funny though how people call it a star wars rip off, and then mass effect it's space based jrpg.



Khuutra on 04 May 2009
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

So then why did we all enjoy the early Final Fantasy games and early Sonic games in the early 90's?

I thought they were good games then and are good games now.  I don't know how games "go bad."

 

Like Kasz pointed out, earlier FF games had older characters.  They also had more mature themes.  They've slowly turned away from the older nerdier RPG crowd to the teen anime crowd.  Just look at the hairdos.

In fairness, XII is still different!



Kasz216 on 04 May 2009
Khuutra said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

So then why did we all enjoy the early Final Fantasy games and early Sonic games in the early 90's?

I thought they were good games then and are good games now.  I don't know how games "go bad."

 

Like Kasz pointed out, earlier FF games had older characters.  They also had more mature themes.  They've slowly turned away from the older nerdier RPG crowd to the teen anime crowd.  Just look at the hairdos.

In fairness, XII is still different!

True.  I still think it suffered from Matsuno's early depart from the project.

Also the fact that Matsuno was the head would explain it's complexity....

I mean as stated above.  Final Fantasy Tactics is his idea of "dumbed down story wise".

Also... the effect of the company can be seen by the afore mentioned changing of the main character from Basch to Vaan.

Which... would of made it a much better game honestly.  Vaan is such a drag early on and the game is much better off after he gets pushed to the sidelines.

It reminds me of that era oldschool cartoons went through where EVERYONE had a kid sidekick... no matter how dangerous or ridiculious they're job.



Around the Network
pastro243 on 04 May 2009
Darc Requiem said:
Kasz216 said:
Darc Requiem said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

Couldn' t have said it better myself Badgenome.

 

Well that's the thing too... weren't the SNES protaganists... older?

I mean it seemed that way anyway.

 

Yeah for the most part. In FFIV the whole cast were adults except for three party members and one of those three becomes and adult before the game ends. FFV and FFVI followed similiar trends with it's protagonists as well.

@Deatht0m

I have to send you a friend request after you post.

 

Well, there were no "kids" in FF7 except for yuffie. In FF12 there are young protagonists as penelo and vaan but they even seem young adults or closer to adults than to teens. Also, I cant see the "maturity" behind old FF that the newer ones dont have.

Maybe old gamers feel left out and its the kind of attitude old people have when they say "In my times...blabla", maybe the series has become better and changed and u percieve it as going to hell.

 



- Our album on spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/56mEbEgyBYGzcDyZ1eMQ1v?si=hYKgir5YRSCrzywgGmV4oQ

- Our videoclip 

- My manga: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/blanca-the-world/list?title_no=313068

pastro243 on 04 May 2009
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Rei said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

   Nostalgia. I still enjoy playing old Sonic games for the same reason, whilst there is no chance I'd touch a new one. However children do like them.

So then why did we all enjoy the early Final Fantasy games and early Sonic games in the early 90's?

I thought they were good games then and are good games now.  I don't know how games "go bad."

 

Like Kasz pointed out, earlier FF games had older characters.  They also had more mature themes.  They've slowly turned away from the older nerdier RPG crowd to the teen anime crowd.  Just look at the hairdos.

They arent bad, its just that new games are better in many aspects.

 



- Our album on spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/56mEbEgyBYGzcDyZ1eMQ1v?si=hYKgir5YRSCrzywgGmV4oQ

- Our videoclip 

- My manga: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/blanca-the-world/list?title_no=313068

pastro243 on 04 May 2009
Jo21 said:
thats hard, FF each game it's a unique experience.

i find funny though how people call it a star wars rip off, and then mass effect it's space based jrpg.

 

 Agree



- Our album on spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/56mEbEgyBYGzcDyZ1eMQ1v?si=hYKgir5YRSCrzywgGmV4oQ

- Our videoclip 

- My manga: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/blanca-the-world/list?title_no=313068

Endz on 04 May 2009

I thought most games go for teens then 20s something. Just having older cast doesn't mean much, most of the movies I like aren't "teen movies" and super heros are usually not teens too. Could have older cast and still aim at teens.

Square-Enix is just stating the obvious. Could grow out of anything, the people who played final fantasy 1 and those earlier ones grew up more and are not in their target audience but of course they could still like playing but some had to had dropped off because they aged.



Kasz216 on 04 May 2009
pastro243 said:
Darc Requiem said:
Kasz216 said:
Darc Requiem said:
badgenome said:

Oh, good. I'm perfectly normal, then.

But why do I still like the old Final Fantasies?

Couldn' t have said it better myself Badgenome.

 

Well that's the thing too... weren't the SNES protaganists... older?

I mean it seemed that way anyway.

 

Yeah for the most part. In FFIV the whole cast were adults except for three party members and one of those three becomes and adult before the game ends. FFV and FFVI followed similiar trends with it's protagonists as well.

@Deatht0m

I have to send you a friend request after you post.

 

Well, there were no "kids" in FF7 except for yuffie. In FF12 there are young protagonists as penelo and vaan but they even seem young adults or closer to adults than to teens. Also, I cant see the "maturity" behind old FF that the newer ones dont have.

Maybe old gamers feel left out and its the kind of attitude old people have when they say "In my times...blabla", maybe the series has become better and changed and u percieve it as going to hell.

Cloud is like... 18-22 in FF7... as is basically the whole cast outside of Barrett.

Also outside of barrett.  No one in the game has any adult responsibilties or connections what so ever.

If you consider less complicated narritive and a focus on younger, less developed characters a change for the better... all the more power to you.  Your the people square is targeting.