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Forums - General - FBI Official Involved in Torture Interrogations Says They Did Not Work

akuma587 said:

The Constitution protects everyone, both the good and the bad people. If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that they went out of their way when writing the Constitution to protect bad people.  I think that Tyrannical is far more naive than they were.

 

No, the constitution is a social contract between the citizens of the US and the US government. No one else entered into that contract, so how could they be obligated by it?



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

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So...the people and the government can't enter into a contract that they will not do certain things, including things to people who aren't citizens? That doesn't make any sense.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
So...the people and the government can't enter into a contract that they will not do certain things, including things to people who aren't citizens? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Look, if you are actually paying to go to law school ask your prof that question. It's called a social contract. What parties is that social contract between?



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

Citizens and government can include whatever they want in the social contract. They can include in the contract that people have to wear yellow hats on Friday or they will be shot in the street. They can include protections for people who are not citizens of a country as well.

Just because the contract is between that country's individuals and the government does not mean that it cannot provide rights for those who are not citizens. The government and individuals CAN AGREE THAT IT WILL provide protections for those outside the social contract entirely.

Why do you think the Constitution uses the term "Citizen" in some parts:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

And uses "person" in other parts:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

And doesn't use either word in other parts when referring to any action taken by the government that falls within the meaning of the provision:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted
.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

MrBubbles said:
ssj12 said:
akuma587 said:
MrBubbles said:
sometimes morality is irrelevant. when you work to save lives, you do whats effective.

So why not just nuke the Middle East and get it over with?  That would be the most effective.

 

 

because there is an art to warfare.

is your comment for or against nuking?  because im not sure if the middle east would look nice as a glass sculpture.

 

My statement is meant to be for or against. It is to point out there is rules to warfare when you are a civilized country. While yes we do can break the rules like torturing individuals but things like nuclear strikes are last resort methods only.

You have to go through the necessary measures before making the final ending move. If you can avoid those final moves to end combat you will.



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You know what/ I don't care anything. I just want those taliban fuckers to suffer. There, I said it.


I would rather put them in a pool of starving piranhas, pull them out again as they have been partially eaten, then put them back in 30 minutes later to end it.
The situation is different for the iraqi soldiers though, they were only doing their job.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

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