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Forums - Gaming Discussion - My XBox 360 vs PS3 comparison (mostly technical)

MikeB on 17 September 2007

@ erikguy

The PPE doesnt process any game information. It just distributes processing jobs to the SPEs.


Sure it does, many multi-platform PS3 games don't even use the SPEs yet.

For example the visually impressive yet mediocre game Genji 2 is confirmed not the be using the SPEs at all. Reread the long list of developer comments, PS3 developers are still just in the process of moving more of their game engines onto the SPEs. By doing so, they actually take workload off the PPE, which can then concentrate on for example AI or other things, but like in Heavenly Sword and Lair the opposite can also be done by putting much of their AI on the SPEs.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

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MikeB on 17 September 2007

@ erikguy

And dont be so quick to dismiss the 3 "virtualized" CPUs on the 360.... they help.


I am not disputing that, but the Xenon is considerably less powerfull than the Cell processor and it's implemented in a bottlenecked manner into the XBox 360 design, having to go through the GPU for memory while sharing the memory bus to access the slower unified memory.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB on 17 September 2007

"EISA (European Imaging and Sound Association) judges have revealed that Blu-ray is the reason for recognising Sony’s Playstation3 with an award in its home entertainment category.

The EISA organisation, comprised of around 50 consumer electronics magazine editors from 19 European countries, awarded the PS3 as the best European Media Center – despite it being primarily a games console."

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/09/eisa_confirm_bl.html



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

sieanr on 17 September 2007

Hmm, MikeB still hasn't talked aout the RAM speeds he quoted, even when someone was nice enough to point out part of his error.

It's almost like he's ignoring the points where he's been proven wrong. For a person who claims to be so fair and technically minded, this just doesn't make sense.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

MikeB on 17 September 2007
sieanr said:
Hmm, MikeB still hasn't talked aout the RAM speeds he quoted, even when someone was nice enough to point out part of his error.

It's almost like he's ignoring the points where he's been proven wrong. For a person who claims to be so fair and technically minded, this just doesn't make sense.


Care to enlighten me? What RAM speeds are you talking about exactly? 3.2 GHz clocked XDR?

Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Around the Network
MikeB on 17 September 2007
MikeB said:
@ erikguy

Xbox 360 CPU: 3 main threads, and 3 secondary threads.

CELL: 8 main threads, and only 1 secondary thread running on the PPE.

In terms of peak processing potential that's just 3 cores (Xenon, XBox 360) vs 8 processors (Cell, PS3). 2 threads on the PPE and one thread per SPE giving you a total of 9 hardware threads. Software threads are not limited so you can have as many of these as you wish!

A single core CPU allowing for 2 hardware threads does not equal to two of these CPUs running a single thread.

The comment regarding software threads of course regards the SPEs as well. Just to clarify considering some of things I read in the forums.

You can create software threads, multiple threads are held in a local store and the SPE switches between them when a thread stalls on memory access.

@sieanr

 I'll have a look at this thread again tomorrow to see what you were referring to.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Final-Fan on 17 September 2007
MikeB said:
sieanr said:
Hmm, MikeB still hasn't talked aout the RAM speeds he quoted, even when someone was nice enough to point out part of his error.

It's almost like he's ignoring the points where he's been proven wrong. For a person who claims to be so fair and technically minded, this just doesn't make sense.


Care to enlighten me? What RAM speeds are you talking about exactly? 3.2 GHz clocked XDR?


Back on the first page, he has a rather vitriolic 3-point attack on you.  One of those points is that the RAM clock speeds you quote "proves that you have no fucking clue about what you're talking about." 

sieanr, the RAM speeds, bandwidth, and architecture in both the 360 and the PS3have been dicussed very, very extensively in this thread, and it it ridiculous to claim that your 'objection' hasn't been addressed, even if MikeB never responded to your specific post.  If you have issues with specific numbers, give your own sources with what you consider the true numbers.   



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

sieanr on 17 September 2007
MikeB said:
sieanr said:
Hmm, MikeB still hasn't talked aout the RAM speeds he quoted, even when someone was nice enough to point out part of his error.

It's almost like he's ignoring the points where he's been proven wrong. For a person who claims to be so fair and technically minded, this just doesn't make sense.


Care to enlighten me? What RAM speeds are you talking about exactly? 3.2 GHz clocked XDR?

The part where you compare the XDR speed directly to the speed of GDDR3, in both the 360 and PS3. Ever hear of something called "effective clock"?

Such a simple oversight on your part really shows a lack of knowledge, or one hell of a bias.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

sieanr on 17 September 2007
Final-Fan said:

sieanr, the RAM speeds, bandwidth, and architecture in both the 360 and the PS3have been dicussed very, very extensively in this thread, and it it ridiculous to claim that your 'objection' hasn't been addressed, even if MikeB never responded to your specific post.  If you have issues with specific numbers, give your own sources with what you consider the true numbers.   


I will once he address my point. I'd like to see how he responds to it.

The main part I take issue with is this; The clock speeds he cites and overlooking the disadvantages to XDR (namely very high latency). Not to mention the completly out of whack implication that the 360 design is like a cheap mobo.

A great specced CPU and GPU would be useless if the system has to deal with slow memory and not enough bandwidth to move around the data quickly enough.
The PS3 has 2 types of main memory, very fast 256 MB XDR DRAM with a clock rate of 3.2 GHz and slower 256 MB GDDR3 memory clocked at 700 MHz.

The Xbox 360 has a unified memory model with 512 MB GDDR3 running at 700 Mhz, similar to some cheaper  boards or many Mini-ITX PC motherboards.

Like is the case on the PC, a unified memory model at a lower clock speed is a significant disadvantage. On the PS3 unlike is the case on ordinary PC motherboards both the CPU and GPU can access the faster system memory.

 



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

Final-Fan on 17 September 2007

The main part I take issue with is this; The clock speeds he cites and overlooking the disadvantages to XDR (namely very high latency). Not to mention the completly out of whack implication that the 360 design is like a cheap mobo.

I thought (and Wikipedia and others agree) that it was RDRAM that had latency issues, and that XDR had solved that problem.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!