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Forums - Gaming - Clarifying the Blu Ray read speed

BHR-3 on 20 April 2009

cool never knew all that thanx 4 doing all the research on it



                                                             

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Ascended_Saiyan3 on 20 April 2009
slowmo said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
slowmo said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
@slowmo I see you are living up to your name. Try to keep up.

 

I've disproved your lame theories many times before mate then you either run away from the discussion or no doubt as you'll do now hit the report button in a effort to hide the fact you lost the debate.  Mandatory install are never a positive for the Bluray drive and given all almost the entire 360 catalogue could be installed to the HDD with and benefit form the super quick access times its certainly not a selling point for the PS3.

It doesn't matter how many times you replicate data onto your bluray drive, that only decreases seak time, in terms of pure reading throughput the DVD drive is faster.  You can band around all the averages claims you like but you cannot hide from the fact that the data that needs streaming fastest will be stored in the fastest areas and as such will be read from the disk quicker than with a 2X Bluray drive.  Putting replications of data on a Bluray drive will not increase its throughput and organising the image better helps less than on the 360 because of the fact it reads consistantly across the entire disk. 

I see you and Mike moved the goal posts across to trying to proclaim the advantages of HDD installations now, do we take it you've lost this argument and are now making excuses for the lesser performance of the Bluray drive in the PS3.

You would like people to believe that, wouldn't you?  EVERYTHING you have talked about has already been debunked in the past page or two.  You sound like a broken record with incorrect info.  Smart people already understand that HDD installations have advantages.  And, your "lesser performance of the Blu-ray drive" argument is...wrong.  Data is packed closer together on Blu-ray.  That decreases seek times over the same amount of data, etc, etc.  Worst case scenario, on a DL-DVD worth of data, Blu-ray drive and DVD drive in these consoles are even.  Just re-read the information presented to you and just refuse to accept the science (like normal).

BTW, what's the average seek time on finding disc two to put in the X360?

 

 

 No you've yet to explain how the throughput of the faster DVD drive in the 360 when data is organised for maximum speed is worse than the slower Bluray drive.  The topic we're discussing isn't HDD installations (which the 360 can do better anyway) nor is capacity a advantage or disadvantage.  Stop trying to get away from the simple fact the Bluray drive reads data slower than the 360.  Thats fact and you've not provided evidence to the contrary.  By the way I have no games in my 360 collection that are on 2 disks, plus again your pathetic fanboy attempts to move the topic off course have failed again.

Does the Bluray drive read data faster than the 360 in real world terms.  The vast amount of developers that require mandatory installations say no. 

 

Finally I never debunked the value of HDD installations, I just told you they were not relevant to the debate.  Also as I said before the 360 can install all game data to the HDD and run faster.  Using Oblivion as an example is rubbish and you know it, that game had a complete engine overall.  Remind me how Bioshock does on the PS3.

This shows you don't know what you're talking about.  X360 HDD installations help NOTHING but loading speeds.  How is that suppose to be better than PS3's implementation?  Why is Halo 3 SLOWER with a HDD installation?  Of course, these things have ALREADY been explained, but you are AGAIN living up to your name.  I need sleep to deal with this level of delusion/misinformation.  Later

 



Feylic on 20 April 2009
slowmo said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
slowmo said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
@slowmo I see you are living up to your name. Try to keep up.

 

I've disproved your lame theories many times before mate then you either run away from the discussion or no doubt as you'll do now hit the report button in a effort to hide the fact you lost the debate.  Mandatory install are never a positive for the Bluray drive and given all almost the entire 360 catalogue could be installed to the HDD with and benefit form the super quick access times its certainly not a selling point for the PS3.

It doesn't matter how many times you replicate data onto your bluray drive, that only decreases seak time, in terms of pure reading throughput the DVD drive is faster.  You can band around all the averages claims you like but you cannot hide from the fact that the data that needs streaming fastest will be stored in the fastest areas and as such will be read from the disk quicker than with a 2X Bluray drive.  Putting replications of data on a Bluray drive will not increase its throughput and organising the image better helps less than on the 360 because of the fact it reads consistantly across the entire disk. 

I see you and Mike moved the goal posts across to trying to proclaim the advantages of HDD installations now, do we take it you've lost this argument and are now making excuses for the lesser performance of the Bluray drive in the PS3.

You would like people to believe that, wouldn't you?  EVERYTHING you have talked about has already been debunked in the past page or two.  You sound like a broken record with incorrect info.  Smart people already understand that HDD installations have advantages.  And, your "lesser performance of the Blu-ray drive" argument is...wrong.  Data is packed closer together on Blu-ray.  That decreases seek times over the same amount of data, etc, etc.  Worst case scenario, on a DL-DVD worth of data, Blu-ray drive and DVD drive in these consoles are even.  Just re-read the information presented to you and just refuse to accept the science (like normal).

BTW, what's the average seek time on finding disc two to put in the X360?

 

 

 No you've yet to explain how the throughput of the faster DVD drive in the 360 when data is organised for maximum speed is worse than the slower Bluray drive.  The topic we're discussing isn't HDD installations (which the 360 can do better anyway) nor is capacity a advantage or disadvantage.  1: Stop trying to get away from the simple fact the Bluray drive reads data slower than the 360.  Thats fact and you've not provided evidence to the contrary.  2: By the way I have no games in my 360 collection that are on 2 disks, plus again your pathetic fanboy attempts to move the topic off course have failed again.

Does the Bluray drive read data faster than the 360 in real world terms.  The vast amount of developers that require mandatory installations say no. 

 

Finally I never debunked the value of HDD installations, I just told you they were not relevant to the debate.  Also as I said before the 360 can install all game data to the HDD and run faster.  Using Oblivion as an example is rubbish and you know it, that game had a complete engine overall.  Remind me how Bioshock does on the PS3.

1: Ok, for watching dvd's you may be right, but for gaming, how is a speed from 4.36MB/s-10.57MB/s, better than a speed at 9MB/s a simple fact? sometimes it's faster, sometimes it's slower.

 

2: And I have no games in my PS3 collection that load slowly or require installs.

 



slowmo on 20 April 2009
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
slowmo said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
slowmo said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
@slowmo I see you are living up to your name. Try to keep up.

 

I've disproved your lame theories many times before mate then you either run away from the discussion or no doubt as you'll do now hit the report button in a effort to hide the fact you lost the debate.  Mandatory install are never a positive for the Bluray drive and given all almost the entire 360 catalogue could be installed to the HDD with and benefit form the super quick access times its certainly not a selling point for the PS3.

It doesn't matter how many times you replicate data onto your bluray drive, that only decreases seak time, in terms of pure reading throughput the DVD drive is faster.  You can band around all the averages claims you like but you cannot hide from the fact that the data that needs streaming fastest will be stored in the fastest areas and as such will be read from the disk quicker than with a 2X Bluray drive.  Putting replications of data on a Bluray drive will not increase its throughput and organising the image better helps less than on the 360 because of the fact it reads consistantly across the entire disk. 

I see you and Mike moved the goal posts across to trying to proclaim the advantages of HDD installations now, do we take it you've lost this argument and are now making excuses for the lesser performance of the Bluray drive in the PS3.

You would like people to believe that, wouldn't you?  EVERYTHING you have talked about has already been debunked in the past page or two.  You sound like a broken record with incorrect info.  Smart people already understand that HDD installations have advantages.  And, your "lesser performance of the Blu-ray drive" argument is...wrong.  Data is packed closer together on Blu-ray.  That decreases seek times over the same amount of data, etc, etc.  Worst case scenario, on a DL-DVD worth of data, Blu-ray drive and DVD drive in these consoles are even.  Just re-read the information presented to you and just refuse to accept the science (like normal).

BTW, what's the average seek time on finding disc two to put in the X360?

 

 

 No you've yet to explain how the throughput of the faster DVD drive in the 360 when data is organised for maximum speed is worse than the slower Bluray drive.  The topic we're discussing isn't HDD installations (which the 360 can do better anyway) nor is capacity a advantage or disadvantage.  Stop trying to get away from the simple fact the Bluray drive reads data slower than the 360.  Thats fact and you've not provided evidence to the contrary.  By the way I have no games in my 360 collection that are on 2 disks, plus again your pathetic fanboy attempts to move the topic off course have failed again.

Does the Bluray drive read data faster than the 360 in real world terms.  The vast amount of developers that require mandatory installations say no. 

 

Finally I never debunked the value of HDD installations, I just told you they were not relevant to the debate.  Also as I said before the 360 can install all game data to the HDD and run faster.  Using Oblivion as an example is rubbish and you know it, that game had a complete engine overall.  Remind me how Bioshock does on the PS3.

This shows you don't know what you're talking about.  X360 HDD installations help NOTHING but loading speeds.  How is that suppose to be better than PS3's implementation?  Why is Halo 3 SLOWER with a HDD installation?  Of course, these things have ALREADY been explained, but you are AGAIN living up to your name.  I need sleep to deal with this level of delusion/misinformation.  Later

 

Please explain why texture pop in disappears on GTA IV when pre installed.  Stop talking utter rubbish as it streams everything quicker so it doesn't just aid loading.  You mean you neeed to run away as you still haven't disproved anything and you've failed in your argument again.  Halo 3 is an exception for reasons stated earlier, if they released a patch to stop the caching process when installed to HDD it would improve too.  Carry on with your fanboy delusions.

 



slowmo on 20 April 2009

@ Feylic - The mulitple disk comment was simply to illustrate how few games have exceeded DVD capacity this generation. It was a pathetic attempt by a previous poster to bring the topic off course.

It's strange how every comparison in real world terms shows the 360 DVD drive to stream quicker than the Bluray drive in the 360 yet we get the same people spreading misinformation. Why do people think GTAIV has a mandatory installation on PS3, its because it would suffer far worse than the 360 did from pop in if it didn't. Time and time again we read mathematical estimates of how Bluray is better, the vast vast majority of real world games show this not to be the case.



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Feylic on 20 April 2009
slowmo said:
@ Feylic - The mulitple disk comment was simply to illustrate how few games have exceeded DVD capacity this generation. It was a pathetic attempt by a previous poster to bring the topic off course.

It's strange how every comparison in real world terms shows the 360 DVD drive to stream quicker than the Bluray drive in the 360 yet we get the same people spreading misinformation. Why do people think GTAIV has a mandatory installation on PS3, its because it would suffer far worse than the 360 did from pop in if it didn't. Time and time again we read mathematical estimates of how Bluray is better, the vast vast majority of real world games show this not to be the case.

Heres the problems I have with what you are saying...

1: What "real world terms" and misinformation are you talking about?

2: Why didn't burnout paradise have an install? It's open world

3: For starters on your last point, I won't say the ps3's drive is better, just that it's by no means worse than the 360. I think the point you're are missing is that these "mathematical estimates" are potential values, rather than given ones. All people are saying (at least I think) is that the ps3 bluray drive has the potential to be just as good, if not better in some aspects, than the 360's drive. It's up to the developers to design their game such that it uses the drive to it's full potential. Just because many developers take the easy way out and install the game, doesn't mean the drive is worse.

 

 



MikeB on 20 April 2009

@ slowmo

Please explain why texture pop in disappears on GTA IV when pre installed. Stop talking utter rubbish as it streams everything quicker so it doesn't just aid loading.


Calm down please, less pop-in, implies faster loading of textures. Thus helps loading speeds.

That's nice though, sadly however most 360 owners seem to own a 20 GB (or none) harddrive. So without buying an overpriced replacement there's not much space for installing games.

I imagine there are probably 360 games with specific DVD optimised loading routines, so there would be little to no loading advantage without code adaptations.



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Bitmap Frogs on 20 April 2009

The Sony apologetics are working full shifts as of late, seems it's been way too many months of bad sales news =/

Keep grinding those axes guys.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

ssj12 on 20 April 2009
Squilliam said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
NJ5 said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
NJ5 said:

Regarding point 3, I think what Squilliam is saying is that no 360 game requires a mandatory install, while plenty of PS3 games do, so 360's drive is at least not worse than the PS3's. I don't think he's saying that it's necessarily better.

 

If you see my post on this page (3), Halo 3 uses the HDD (if present). That increases the speed of data delivery. How much you wanna bet that this wasn't a one time implementation? ;)

 

Uses the HDD if present = non-mandatory installation.

 

Hello.  you CAN'T have a mandatory installation if NO HDD exists, of course.  You CAN have mandatory installations IF a HDD exists in EVERY console.  We are talking about things that WOULD LEAD to the end result.

 

Mandatory installations are a negative for a game, its not exactly a positive marketing bullet point. Developers would prefer not to use them.

 

 

PC gaming says hello we have had installs for years and has been insanely successful.



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