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Forums - General - Arguments Against God

ManusJustus on 14 April 2009
JRPG said:
appolose said:
Prove to me anything exists.
Actually, don't, I've been arguing about that idea for 2 weeks with Final-Fan now :P

Trying to prove wether God exists or not is like trying to prove to a blind person that colors exist.

If you can't see it you either have faith thats it exists or you refuse to belive it exists.

Thats pretty easy.  You can teach a blind man physics, so you can easily prove that colors exist.  Light has different wavelengths, you can assign a color to different wavelengths, thus if machine (or eye) recieves wavelenghts of different maginitude they can attach colors to them.

 



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WessleWoggle on 14 April 2009
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
alekth said:
 if god exists it shouldn't be impossible to prove it.

Using logic to try to prove that something supernatural exists or does not exist is illlogical.

Define the supernatural. It's a useless, irrelivant concept. Everything is natural. Even if there is 'magic' or 'ghosts' it's not supernatural, it has a source, a cause.

Also, logic is the only way things can be proven, your statement makes no sense.

 

Why would logic apply to something that is not logical? You are trying to apply logic and rules to something no one undersatnds or probably ever will. You can't seem to grasp the concept of what God is. God is something you can't explain and thus will never be proven or disproved...especially with logic. Why waste your time doing it? What do you gain?

 

What makes you think it's not logical? You have to proove it's illogical to make the claim that it's not logical.

What makes you think God can't be explained? That's not proven either.

 

 



JRPG on 14 April 2009
ManusJustus said:
JRPG said:
appolose said:
Prove to me anything exists.
Actually, don't, I've been arguing about that idea for 2 weeks with Final-Fan now :P

Trying to prove wether God exists or not is like trying to prove to a blind person that colors exist.

If you can't see it you either have faith thats it exists or you refuse to belive it exists.

Thats pretty easy.  You can teach a blind man physics, so you can easily prove that colors exist.  Light has different wavelengths, you can assign a color to different wavelengths, thus if machine (or eye) recieves wavelenghts of different maginitude they can attach colors to them.

 

 

Like i said before that was a bad anology. I was trying to simplify my point.



alekth on 14 April 2009

You are going in circles.
I'm not saying I can prove that they don't exist. The point was that if they existed, I could run into one and then bring it to you.

Because regardless of what blind people can see and how much logic and scientific knowledge we involve, things can prove their existence by simply making this known. Science has to cope with the explanation, not the other way around.



JRPG on 14 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
alekth said:
 if god exists it shouldn't be impossible to prove it.

Using logic to try to prove that something supernatural exists or does not exist is illlogical.

Define the supernatural. It's a useless, irrelivant concept. Everything is natural. Even if there is 'magic' or 'ghosts' it's not supernatural, it has a source, a cause.

Also, logic is the only way things can be proven, your statement makes no sense.

 

Why would logic apply to something that is not logical? You are trying to apply logic and rules to something no one undersatnds or probably ever will. You can't seem to grasp the concept of what God is. God is something you can't explain and thus will never be proven or disproved...especially with logic. Why waste your time doing it? What do you gain?

 

What makes you think it's not logical? You have to proove it's illogical to make the claim that it's not logical.

What makes you think God can't be explained? That's not proven either.

 

 

What makes you think he can be explained?

 



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appolose on 14 April 2009
luinil said:
appolose said:

Prove to me anything* exists.
Actually, don't.  I've been arguing about that idea for 2 weeks with Final-Fan now :P

Lol. That was some argument too, I followed it for a while, but I just gave up eventually.

But I don't think there is a point to jumping and defending my beliefs from a person who's only goal with this thread is attacking me. There is no point if I cannot change his mind.

You followed that mess, huh?  I think I'm only frustrating Final-Fan now :P

 



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WessleWoggle on 14 April 2009
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
alekth said:
Hey, let's use supernatural things to explain what we don't know.

 

Its just an endless loop. You can't disprove God, and you can't prove him either. Its foolish to bicker over it

 

 Which one? You can disprove some really easily.

Technecally you can't.

 

Sure its funny to laugh at the Elephant guy or Xenu, but you still can't really disprove their existance. There is no set rules for gods, and thus so there is no way to determine if they are real.

Most people pick a religion and have faith that it is the true religion. There is no way to say their choice is incorrct just cause you disagee with it.

 

Well, if a christian claims god is infallible and the bible is the word of god, their god is disproven.

Bible is inaccurate = The abrahamic god's holy book is fallible = Disproven

So what humans say dictates what God is?

What makes you think God is not perfect? Have you ever sat down for tea and quizzed him? The bible was witten by man about God. There may in fact be errors in it. Why do you think there are so many different holy texts in this world?

Just cause some humans say one thing does not mean its true or untrue about God. You say God does not exist, yet you have not given solid proof that he does not exist, and i can't give you solid proof that he does. Hence the endless loop i was refering to in an earlier post. People argue over the truth about God to justify their own beliefs.

 

This thread is a perfect example over how badly believers want to believe and how badly nonbeliever don't want them to believe.

 

 

What humans say don't dictate what god is, but for each individual human, their concept of god determines if their god could be disproven, that was my point.

I don't think our god is perfect, nothing is perfect, perfect is a concept that has no real meaning. I don't think the bible in infallible, but some christians do. Their god is easily disproven, as the bible is fallible.

I'm not arguing for either side by the way, I'm an agnostic. I'm arguing for your misrepresentation of logic, I don't care if god exists one way or another.

 

 

What is God is perfect and the bible is not perfect.

What if i said my God is perfect? Then your deduction is rendered useless, and My god can't be disproven.

This argument is as old as time. I'm sure smarter people than you and me have had this discussion, and it still ended in the same result, a stalemate.

 

I didn't say a perfect god cannot create a imperfect bible. I'm talking about only one concept of god...

I was talking about a christian, who says the bible is the infallible word of god. A god who created an infallible bible is easily disproven because they are no infallible holy books.

 



JRPG on 14 April 2009
alekth said:
You are going in circles.
I'm not saying I can prove that they don't exist. The point was that if they existed, I could run into one and then bring it to you.

Because regardless of what blind people can see and how much logic and scientific knowledge we involve, things can prove their existence by simply making this known. Science has to cope with the explanation, not the other way around.

 

What if the unicorn had no physical form? Could you still find one? No of course not.

 

Endless loop, BTW.



786_ali on 14 April 2009

I may sound as if I'm preaching my religion, but if you have a look at the scientific facts that the Q'uran has stated thousands of years ago, facts which scientists are now learning about, you will believe that Allah exists. The Q'uran wasn't man-made.

@JRPG: I can see your point of view. However I disagree that he can't be proven for he can be proven.



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JRPG on 14 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
WessleWoggle said:
JRPG said:
alekth said:
Hey, let's use supernatural things to explain what we don't know.

 

Its just an endless loop. You can't disprove God, and you can't prove him either. Its foolish to bicker over it

 

 Which one? You can disprove some really easily.

Technecally you can't.

 

Sure its funny to laugh at the Elephant guy or Xenu, but you still can't really disprove their existance. There is no set rules for gods, and thus so there is no way to determine if they are real.

Most people pick a religion and have faith that it is the true religion. There is no way to say their choice is incorrct just cause you disagee with it.

 

Well, if a christian claims god is infallible and the bible is the word of god, their god is disproven.

Bible is inaccurate = The abrahamic god's holy book is fallible = Disproven

So what humans say dictates what God is?

What makes you think God is not perfect? Have you ever sat down for tea and quizzed him? The bible was witten by man about God. There may in fact be errors in it. Why do you think there are so many different holy texts in this world?

Just cause some humans say one thing does not mean its true or untrue about God. You say God does not exist, yet you have not given solid proof that he does not exist, and i can't give you solid proof that he does. Hence the endless loop i was refering to in an earlier post. People argue over the truth about God to justify their own beliefs.

 

This thread is a perfect example over how badly believers want to believe and how badly nonbeliever don't want them to believe.

 

 

What humans say don't dictate what god is, but for each individual human, their concept of god determines if their god could be disproven, that was my point.

I don't think our god is perfect, nothing is perfect, perfect is a concept that has no real meaning. I don't think the bible in infallible, but some christians do. Their god is easily disproven, as the bible is fallible.

I'm not arguing for either side by the way, I'm an agnostic. I'm arguing for your misrepresentation of logic, I don't care if god exists one way or another.

 

 

What is God is perfect and the bible is not perfect.

What if i said my God is perfect? Then your deduction is rendered useless, and My god can't be disproven.

This argument is as old as time. I'm sure smarter people than you and me have had this discussion, and it still ended in the same result, a stalemate.

 

I didn't say a perfect god cannot create a imperfect bible. I'm talking about only one concept of god...

I was talking about a christian, who says the bible is the infallible word of god. A god who created an infallible bible is easily disproven because they are no infallible holy books.

 

The bible is a man made book that is suppose to be a record of God's word. Perfect God, unperfect holy text. Back to square one.

 

I'm getting tired of this back and forth...Thanks for the fun debate, friend.

See ya.