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Forums - General - Better for all, Capitalism or Socialism?

TheRealMafoo said:
SamuelRSmith said:

@Mafoo The UK has a huge problem with "dead" towns. Particularly in Western England and Wales.

These towns were built based around a local mine, after a while the mines became too expensive to operate, and so people started buying coal, etc, from other countries.

Suddenly a town's main source of income is gone, and lot's of people lost their jobs. As a result of that shops could no longer operate at large, so they had to downsize and close.

I don't know whether NintendoMan comes from one of these places, but from some of his statements, I think it might be a good guess.

At the end of the day, capitalism got people to move miles away from big cities and other "developed" areas (we're talking 1800s, here) to places where the only sustainable source of income was mining. Capitalism then decided that these mines were too expensive to operate, and so all these people have been suffering since.

So, yes, people on minimum wage would live a better life, but you can't be on minimum wage if you don't have a job.

 

In the UK, you are free to live wherever you want right? People moved to those places for a better standard of living. Time to do the same thing (move to the next place for a better standard of living).

You're poor, you have no job, and you're house isn't worth anything (as no one wants to buy a house in these locations), how the hell are you supposed to come up with the funds to buy another property?



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To be honest UK compared to the rest of Europe has much better standard of Living. And a "poor" person in the UK is still able to afford all necessary stuff in life, they are able to get housing, benefits etc. etc. And because of that their situation is not as bad as lets say those in bad economical situation in continental Europe especially in the Eastern countries.



SamuelRSmith said:

You're poor, you have no job, and you're house isn't worth anything (as no one wants to buy a house in these locations), how the hell are you supposed to come up with the funds to buy another property?

 

If I was as poor as NintendoMan claims he is, and I lived in a part of the country like you guess he lives, my course of action would be this (in the US, not sure this is possible in the UK):

First off, I doubt I would own a house, but if I did and I had a lot of equity in it, I would sell it for what I owed (if that would sell it). If I didn’t, I would turn it over to the bank and take the credit hit (why do I care about credit in my current situation right?). I would then take the cheapest form of transportation to the closest city that does not have the problems you described. (In my case, I could walk it in two days, or hitchhike it in one. Once I am in that city, I would find the biggest church, and inquire about food, and shelter. They would either put me up, or direct me to a homeless shelter. I would then look for any work I could walk to, and look like shit at (being I have no money for better clothing). Probably something in a kitchen. I would work that until I could afford the cheapest place to rent (A lot of cities here have old hotels turned into apartments, that cost next to nothing to live in. You get a small kitchen and shower, but at least you have a place).

Once I collected enough money to buy a few nice pieces of clothing, I would look for a better job (he did go to University), or I would look at a community college to learn more than working in a restaurant. In the US, at that level of income, local colleges are free (due to grant money). From there, its sky’s the limit.

All of that was done without government assistance. The only help I received, would be help from people who volunteered to give it.



@Lolcislaw - my life would improve if I lived in one of those eastern european countries. Benefits are not enough, you say I am talking bullcrap, I say you know nothing of my life, my town, the cost of living or my situation. Also, I cannot just get a job. I've been unemployed since leaving collage in June 2008, since then I have taken two training courses (one in hospitality I think, the other in Teaching Assistant) and studied a foreign language (Japanese) in an attempt to boost my job chances. It hasn't worked. In the last week alone I went on 3 interviews (around 100 since leaving) and applied/arranged interviews for several more, the problem is there are more people than jobs, I obviously have no experience and have mediocre grades because I'm thick (you happy now) and I am up against students who are cheaper and people with more experience/qualifications. Its also dam hard to get a job when you're constricted by a bus timetable. Even then it would take an extremely well being job before I'm any better off. Why don't you mind your own business, stop telling me to just get a job like its as easy as 1 2 3 and stop being such a horrid person.

@therealmafoo - yes you can move away but that requires money, it would also require a way to transport your possessions or anything you may have and it would require you having somewhere to move too

@SamuelRSmith - you're pretty much right. There was a thriving coal mine, along with around a dozen factory's and plenty of local business too. Unfortunately the coal mine was shut down due to environmental regulations regarding emissions around 5yrs ago now, the factorys (bar one) closed down due to the influx of cheap goods from other country's throughout the 80's & 90's and the opening of 3 supermarkets pretty much closed the local businesses.



Manchester United 2008-09 Season - Trophies & Records

Barclays Premier League 2008-09: 1st // UEFA Champions League 2008-09: Finals (Yet To Play) // FIFA Club World Cup: Winners // UEFA Super Cup: Runners-up // FA Cup: Semi-Finals // League (Carling) Cup: Winners // FA (Charity) Community Shield: Winners
Records: First British Team To Win FIFA Club World Cup, New Record for No. Of Consecutive Clean Sheets In Premier League, New English & British League Records for Minutes Without Conceding, New Record For Going Undeafeated In Champions League (25 games ongoing), First British Team To Beat FC Porto In Portugal, First Club To Defeat Arsenal At The Emirates In European Competition, First Team In English League Football History To Win 3 Titles Back To Back On Two Seperate Ocassions

I smell commie propaganda.



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@mafoo - no I did not goto University - could not afford it. Also the house I live in is rented from the council. There are no flats to downsize too as they were all sold off during thatchers reign as PM and there is no homeless shelters or anything like that in my town - do you know why? Because they cannot be afforded. So its a house or the streets - and the streets are bad where I live. During the day its alright but at night you get the wino's, drug addicts, vandal (or youths or yobs or whatever you want to call them). Already this year 3 homeless people have been killed on the streets in my town.



Manchester United 2008-09 Season - Trophies & Records

Barclays Premier League 2008-09: 1st // UEFA Champions League 2008-09: Finals (Yet To Play) // FIFA Club World Cup: Winners // UEFA Super Cup: Runners-up // FA Cup: Semi-Finals // League (Carling) Cup: Winners // FA (Charity) Community Shield: Winners
Records: First British Team To Win FIFA Club World Cup, New Record for No. Of Consecutive Clean Sheets In Premier League, New English & British League Records for Minutes Without Conceding, New Record For Going Undeafeated In Champions League (25 games ongoing), First British Team To Beat FC Porto In Portugal, First Club To Defeat Arsenal At The Emirates In European Competition, First Team In English League Football History To Win 3 Titles Back To Back On Two Seperate Ocassions
NintendoMan said:
I am up against students who are cheaper

 

Why would students be cheaper? Work for what a student would get paid. It’s better than eating only bread for a week, and you would have some experience doing something (hell, if you cashiered at one of the supermarkets, it’s customer service experience). Taking a job below your education level looks good on a resume. A lot better than not working for a year. It shows dedication, and employers like that.



So college and university are different there? here they are different, but not to the point where anyone cares all that much. (unless your looking for an executive position).



@mafoo - The business decide who they hire, I don't get to tell them they have hired me. The students are cheaper as they can work for less. This is because the minimum wage law allows people under 18 to be paid less than those over 18 and businesses are interested in saving money to be more profitable - capitalism in the flesh there. Minimum wage for 18-21 is £4.77 while for those under 18 its just £3.53. Which is the business going to hire me or the the one who can work for a £1 less each hour. Because of capitalism they will choose the cheaper one. Now most of the jobs require no specific education and are part-time so suit the students very well.



Manchester United 2008-09 Season - Trophies & Records

Barclays Premier League 2008-09: 1st // UEFA Champions League 2008-09: Finals (Yet To Play) // FIFA Club World Cup: Winners // UEFA Super Cup: Runners-up // FA Cup: Semi-Finals // League (Carling) Cup: Winners // FA (Charity) Community Shield: Winners
Records: First British Team To Win FIFA Club World Cup, New Record for No. Of Consecutive Clean Sheets In Premier League, New English & British League Records for Minutes Without Conceding, New Record For Going Undeafeated In Champions League (25 games ongoing), First British Team To Beat FC Porto In Portugal, First Club To Defeat Arsenal At The Emirates In European Competition, First Team In English League Football History To Win 3 Titles Back To Back On Two Seperate Ocassions

@Lolcisaw - reported you to a mod



Manchester United 2008-09 Season - Trophies & Records

Barclays Premier League 2008-09: 1st // UEFA Champions League 2008-09: Finals (Yet To Play) // FIFA Club World Cup: Winners // UEFA Super Cup: Runners-up // FA Cup: Semi-Finals // League (Carling) Cup: Winners // FA (Charity) Community Shield: Winners
Records: First British Team To Win FIFA Club World Cup, New Record for No. Of Consecutive Clean Sheets In Premier League, New English & British League Records for Minutes Without Conceding, New Record For Going Undeafeated In Champions League (25 games ongoing), First British Team To Beat FC Porto In Portugal, First Club To Defeat Arsenal At The Emirates In European Competition, First Team In English League Football History To Win 3 Titles Back To Back On Two Seperate Ocassions