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Forums - General - Better for all, Capitalism or Socialism?

tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:




 I care that the poor's lifestyle is getting better faster then the poor's lifestyle would in a different system. Today, the poor live longer, eat better, live in better housing, have better services, and safety then they did 100 years ago,
all because of Capitalism.  < Sources? -GamingChartzFTW-

 

I've never read such shit in my life... do you even know any poor people?

The words of a man who has distanced himself from the less fortunate.

Sad.

Every 'Human Generation' eventually gets better, but how about helping that small percentage who always fail?



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ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Today, the poor live longer, eat better, live in better housing, have better services, and safety then they did 100 years ago, all because of Capitalism.

Thats simply not true.  If it wasnt for socialism (government funding jobs, technology, etc) we wouldnt have satellites, nuclear power, and even computers right now.  We would be sitting around a burning barrel talking about how great capitalism is. 

The most succesful economic system can be found in Scandinavia, where their version of a mixed economy makes them the best off in the world.

# 1   Luxembourg: $89,563.63 per capita 
# 2   Norway: $66,964.36 per capita 
# 3   Iceland: $53,029.30 per capita 
# 4   Ireland: $52,892.89 per capita 
# 5   Qatar: $52,239.72 per capita 
# 6   Switzerland: $51,032.66 per capita 
# 7   Denmark: $50,702.00 per capita 
# 8   United States: $44,155.00 per capita 
# 9   Sweden: $42,553.49 per capita 
# 10   Netherlands: $40,167.13 per capita 
# 11   Finland: $39,855.93 per capita 
# 12   Austria: $39,131.37 per capita 

 

# 13   United Kingdom:

$38,849.97 per capita 

NOTE: Urban areas have larger GDP than their rural counterparts, and Luxembourg is a predominately urban area.  Large countries, like the United States, Norway, Great Britain, etc. include urban and rural areas and, thus, their GDP can be more accurately compared.  Luxembourg's GDP is similar to that of New York City, and for better analysis should only be compared to other urban areas.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-per-capita

This site is just a treasure! I'll have a longer luck at it, but one funny thing jumped into my eye:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

 

It's about economic freedom and guess who actually got the 6th place together with the USA? Denmark!

So much about anybody here will dare again to say, that Denmark is a socialist country

 



Final-Fan said:
What I saw in the OP:
Selective observation + anecdotes
Black-and-white worldview
Thread spamming*

*Although the thread title is different, the thread is clearly the same sort of thing as the other thread he just made.

 

I must say to his defense, that this thread was meanwhile overtaken by me and some others to a discussion about the necessary of teachers.

And the black and white view isn't totally correct as well, as an opener it worked to start a interesting discussion as well.



fmc83 said:
ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Today, the poor live longer, eat better, live in better housing, have better services, and safety then they did 100 years ago, all because of Capitalism.

Thats simply not true.  If it wasnt for socialism (government funding jobs, technology, etc) we wouldnt have satellites, nuclear power, and even computers right now.  We would be sitting around a burning barrel talking about how great capitalism is. 

The most succesful economic system can be found in Scandinavia, where their version of a mixed economy makes them the best off in the world.

# 1   Luxembourg: $89,563.63 per capita   
# 2   Norway: $66,964.36 per capita   
# 3   Iceland: $53,029.30 per capita   
# 4   Ireland: $52,892.89 per capita   
# 5   Qatar: $52,239.72 per capita   
# 6   Switzerland: $51,032.66 per capita   
# 7   Denmark: $50,702.00 per capita   
# 8   United States: $44,155.00 per capita   
# 9   Sweden: $42,553.49 per capita   
# 10   Netherlands: $40,167.13 per capita   
# 11   Finland: $39,855.93 per capita   
# 12   Austria: $39,131.37 per capita 

 

# 13   United Kingdom:

$38,849.97 per capita 

NOTE: Urban areas have larger GDP than their rural counterparts, and Luxembourg is a predominately urban area.  Large countries, like the United States, Norway, Great Britain, etc. include urban and rural areas and, thus, their GDP can be more accurately compared.  Luxembourg's GDP is similar to that of New York City, and for better analysis should only be compared to other urban areas.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-per-capita

This site is just a treasure! I'll have a longer luck at it, but one funny thing jumped into my eye:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

 

It's about economic freedom and guess who actually got the 6th place together with the USA? Denmark!

So much about anybody here will dare again to say, that Denmark is a socialist country

 

LOL Epic!   Good Find fmc83.

Nationmaster is a pretty cool site! I love statistics and solid facts. Again.. Thnx fmc83.

 



fmc83 said:
Final-Fan said:
What I saw in the OP:
Selective observation + anecdotes
Black-and-white worldview
Thread spamming*

*Although the thread title is different, the thread is clearly the same sort of thing as the other thread he just made.
I must say to his defense, that this thread was meanwhile overtaken by me and some others to a discussion about the necessary of teachers.

And the black and white view isn't totally correct as well, as an opener it worked to start a interesting discussion as well.

You definitely have a point on the first.  As for the second, I'll just defer to the one who's spent actual time in this thread.



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fmc83 said:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

It's about economic freedom and guess who actually got the 6th place together with the USA? Denmark!So much about anybody here will dare again to say, that Denmark is a socialist country

I wonder what they mean by economic freedom.  Denmark's government provides socialized education and healthcare, and socialist parties make up a large proportion of Denark's government, yet it is tied with the United States in the category.

The study might look at economic freedom and social freedom in the same light.

EDIT:

A note from the site:

Index of 'economic freedom', according to the American organisation 'The Heritage Foundation'. It is worth noting that such indices are based on highly culturally contingent factors. This data makes a number of assumptions about 'freedom' and the role of the government that are not accepted by much of the world's population.



ManusJustus said:
fmc83 said:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

It's about economic freedom and guess who actually got the 6th place together with the USA? Denmark!So much about anybody here will dare again to say, that Denmark is a socialist country

I wonder what they mean by economic freedom.  Denmark's government provides socialized education and healthcare, and socialist parties make up a large proportion of Denark's government, yet it is tied with the United States in the category.

The study might look at economic freedom and social freedom in the same light.

EDIT:

A note from the site:

Index of 'economic freedom', according to the American organisation 'The Heritage Foundation'. It is worth noting that such indices are based on highly culturally contingent factors. This data makes a number of assumptions about 'freedom' and the role of the government that are not accepted by much of the world's population.

 

Economic freedom is the fundamental right of every human to control his or her own labor and property. In an economically free society, individuals are free to work, produce, consume, and invest in any way they please, with that freedom both protected by the state and unconstrained by the state. In economically free societies, governments allow labor, capital and goods to move freely, and refrain from coercion or constraint of liberty beyond the extent necessary to protect and maintain liberty itself.

Methodology is here.

http://www.heritage.org/Index/PDF/Index09_Methodology.pdf

High taxrates are a negative for one.



ManusJustus said:
fmc83 said:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

It's about economic freedom and guess who actually got the 6th place together with the USA? Denmark!So much about anybody here will dare again to say, that Denmark is a socialist country

I wonder what they mean by economic freedom.  Denmark's government provides socialized education and healthcare, and socialist parties make up a large proportion of Denark's government, yet it is tied with the United States in the category.

The study might look at economic freedom and social freedom in the same light.

EDIT:

A note from the site:

Index of 'economic freedom', according to the American organisation 'The Heritage Foundation'. It is worth noting that such indices are based on highly culturally contingent factors. This data makes a number of assumptions about 'freedom' and the role of the government that are not accepted by much of the world's population.

Still, I'm pretty sure that the United states is up there among the Top 10 Nations when it comes to economic freedom.

Don't worry ManusJustus. We're all part of the Western World, even though the US population is more religious than they are secular.



ManusJustus said:
fmc83 said:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

It's about economic freedom and guess who actually got the 6th place together with the USA? Denmark!So much about anybody here will dare again to say, that Denmark is a socialist country

I wonder what they mean by economic freedom.  Denmark's government provides socialized education and healthcare, and socialist parties make up a large proportion of Denark's government, yet it is tied with the United States in the category.

The study might look at economic freedom and social freedom in the same light.

EDIT:

A note from the site:

Index of 'economic freedom', according to the American organisation 'The Heritage Foundation'. It is worth noting that such indices are based on highly culturally contingent factors. This data makes a number of assumptions about 'freedom' and the role of the government that are not accepted by much of the world's population.

 

I read that before I posted this, but I reckon, while this can never be 100% accurate it still looks plausible, because for every single country known for a lack of economic freedom you have to actually scroll a long way down. I just took it to prove, that there can't be something totally wrong about it in Denmark.



Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
fmc83 said:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

It's about economic freedom and guess who actually got the 6th place together with the USA? Denmark!So much about anybody here will dare again to say, that Denmark is a socialist country

I wonder what they mean by economic freedom.  Denmark's government provides socialized education and healthcare, and socialist parties make up a large proportion of Denark's government, yet it is tied with the United States in the category.

The study might look at economic freedom and social freedom in the same light.

EDIT:

A note from the site:

Index of 'economic freedom', according to the American organisation 'The Heritage Foundation'. It is worth noting that such indices are based on highly culturally contingent factors. This data makes a number of assumptions about 'freedom' and the role of the government that are not accepted by much of the world's population.

Economic freedom is the fundamental right of every human to control his or her own labor and property. In an economically free society, individuals are free to work, produce, consume, and invest in any way they please, with that freedom both protected by the state and unconstrained by the state. In economically free societies, governments allow labor, capital and goods to move freely, and refrain from coercion or constraint of liberty beyond the extent necessary to protect and maintain liberty itself.

Wikipedia I assume?

Denmark has the most progressive tax system in the world, and they actually tax 50% of their GDP!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tax_tot_tax_as_of_gdp-taxation-total-as-of-gdp

Again, Denmark is hardly a full capitalist country, atleast in terms that most Americans would agree with.  Denmark, and other Scandinavian mixed economies have a good mix of socialism and capitalism.  Denmark provides services such as healthcare and education, they tax the crap our of the rich (and poor for that matter), and they give people the freedom to make economic and social choices as they please.