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Forums - General - There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life

WessleWoggle on 07 April 2009
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
thanny said:
...why do atheists even care? if there is no god, then its not exactly gonna hurt anyone if people believe there is one...

Wrong. Some ideas of god can cause a lot of harm. The idea of god in general is useless to society.

Religion doesn't do anything that couldn't come from other sources.

 

 

 ummmm... no i do not agree... The "idea" of god helps people to keep them on track.... if you live your life believing there is no punishment for what you do that can only hurt the society.

 

 

The idea of god is not needed for that. Ever heard of karma? Also some people don't need the idea of god to not cause harm, but if god is the only thing keeping you from killing people, then by all means feel free to keep believing.

Karma (Sanskrit: कर्म kárma (help·info), kárman- "act, action, performance"[1]; Pali: kamma) is the concept of "action" or "deed" in Indian religions understood as that which causes the entire cycle of cause and effect (i.e., the cycle called saṃsāra) originating in ancient India and treated in Hindu, Jain, Sikh and Buddhist philosophies.

That is a religeous term......

 

 

 

And? I was saying the concept of god is useless. I know I said religion doesn't do anything that comes from other sources, then I used a religious concept as an example. So what?

God is not needed for morals, nor is karma. Other sources of morals are empathy and honor. The morals people associate with god are usually based on honor and not empathy. The morals people associate with karma are usually from empathy.

Karma is a better concept than god, and if I were going to have people believing in a seemingly false concept of balance, i'd have them believe in karma and reincarnation rather than god and heaven/hell.



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antfromtashkent on 07 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:
mrstickball said:
It's crazy that a group of people that don't believe in something try so hard to spread their message of non-belief.

If God doesn't exist, then wouldn't it be prudent not to worry about 'spreading the message'? It's not like a belief in God actually hurts anyone, or anything, or is detrimental to ones health.

It's not crazy, realists just don't like seeing people in a state of what seems like delusion. Don't stereotype all atheists as realists though, many many atheists have delusional ideas just as much as religious people.

If God doesn't exist, then whatever you want to do is your own choice. If spreading atheism is what one wants to do, then that's their choice.

Now, where do you get this idea that belief in god doesn't hurt anyone, anything, or isn't detrimental to health?

The idea of God does do harm. If you deny that you're delusional. Some people think God's on their side, thus causing them to do horrible things and feel good about themselves. I'm not saying all religious people are like this, but some are, and that's the problem, it DOES do harm.

Also, what kind of health? Mental health? Let's not even go there...

Physical health? Haven't you heard of all the cases of people who are harmed by religious beliefs that are centered around god? Go do a google search. Better yet, look here: http://whatstheharm.net/

 

 

so.... what you are saying is that people that mass murder and say that god told them to is your example of how the believe in god hurts our sosciety? ever heard of schizophrenia.... it wouldnt matter if the believe in god was there for that... they could just as well say that the "voises" told them to do it....

 



The_vagabond7 on 07 April 2009
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
thanny said:
...why do atheists even care? if there is no god, then its not exactly gonna hurt anyone if people believe there is one...

Wrong. Some ideas of god can cause a lot of harm. The idea of god in general is useless to society.

Religion doesn't do anything that couldn't come from other sources.

 

 

 ummmm... no i do not agree... The "idea" of god helps people to keep them on track.... if you live your life believing there is no punishment for what you do that can only hurt the society.

Edit: please explain how the "idea" of god can hurt our society.

 

Belief that god demands arbitrary things that are in fact harmful, such as Jehovah's witnesses belief that blood transfusions anger god and thusly would rather let their child die than have a very simple procedure performed.

I went to a jehovah's witness convention before and there was a part where experiences were being given by people. One was from a father who's baby was born but with complications, it needed a blood transfusion or it was going to die. He said no to the blood transfusion, the doctors shocked and horrified that he was insistent on letting his new born child die, they went to a judge post haste to get the child a blood transfusion so he could have a chance at life. The father went to court to fight saying it was his right to let his son die for his own beliefs. The judge disagreed and ordered the transfusion. In this experience the doctors and the courts that saved his child's life (the child he is raising to this day) were cast as villians, and the man was given a standing ovation from the thousands in attendance for attempting to kill his kid. THAT is harmful to society. When a parent can treat a child as a piece of property rather than a living individual because of some arbitrary demand from a tribe thousands of years ago, that is harmful.

I don't think believing in fantasies is inherently harmful, people can believe whatever they want. It's when they impose their fantasies on others to their detriment that it becomes troublesome. Which is why I'm not against religion or free speech, I'm against fundementalist dogma, ignorance and a lack of plurality. Be it from the religious or the atheistic, both are wrong when they act in such ways.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

lolita on 07 April 2009

No I think it's fine and fair... Religious people keep trying to "convert" others, preach that you'll go to hell if you don't follow a book and you always hear "God this God that". Religious people shouldn't feel attacked or offended if they really believe in their religion.

Why is it fine to spread religion and not atheism?



WessleWoggle on 07 April 2009
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
mrstickball said:
It's crazy that a group of people that don't believe in something try so hard to spread their message of non-belief.

If God doesn't exist, then wouldn't it be prudent not to worry about 'spreading the message'? It's not like a belief in God actually hurts anyone, or anything, or is detrimental to ones health.

It's not crazy, realists just don't like seeing people in a state of what seems like delusion. Don't stereotype all atheists as realists though, many many atheists have delusional ideas just as much as religious people.

If God doesn't exist, then whatever you want to do is your own choice. If spreading atheism is what one wants to do, then that's their choice.

Now, where do you get this idea that belief in god doesn't hurt anyone, anything, or isn't detrimental to health?

The idea of God does do harm. If you deny that you're delusional. Some people think God's on their side, thus causing them to do horrible things and feel good about themselves. I'm not saying all religious people are like this, but some are, and that's the problem, it DOES do harm.

Also, what kind of health? Mental health? Let's not even go there...

Physical health? Haven't you heard of all the cases of people who are harmed by religious beliefs that are centered around god? Go do a google search. Better yet, look here: http://whatstheharm.net/

 

 

so.... what you are saying is that people that mass murder and say that god told them to is your example of how the believe in god hurts our sosciety? ever heard of schizophrenia.... it wouldnt matter if the believe in god was there for that... they could just as well say that the "voises" told them to do it....

 

 

 

But the idea of god makes people more likely to think the voices are valid.

But I'm not only talking about people who are actually crazy and hear voices. I'm talking about perfectly sane people who think god answered their prayers when they just got lucky or waited long enough, and things of that nature.

I don't really have a problem with the idea of god when someones idea of god isn't bullshit, but when someone's idea of god involves prayer, faith, or worship, it does harm by degrading their logic.



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mrstickball on 07 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:

It's not crazy, realists just don't like seeing people in a state of what seems like delusion. Don't stereotype all atheists as realists though, many many atheists have delusional ideas just as much as religious people.

If God doesn't exist, then whatever you want to do is your own choice. If spreading atheism is what one wants to do, then that's their choice.

Religion states (depending on the religion) that whatever you do is your own choice. However, there are dire consequences to what you do.

Now, where do you get this idea that belief in god doesn't hurt anyone, anything, or isn't detrimental to health?

Probably from being a Christian my entire life, and seeing the positive impact it's had on hundreds of people I've personally met. Can religion hurt people? Absolutely. But so can a car. If used properly, it's a great thing. If used improperly, it's a terrible thing. Look at the wicked Catholic church from 500-1700AD, and the power trip they went on. That doesn't mean that 100% of religion is bad, merely the people that use it for things that it wasn't intended to be. 

The idea of God does do harm. If you deny that you're delusional. Some people think God's on their side, thus causing them to do horrible things and feel good about themselves. I'm not saying all religious people are like this, but some are, and that's the problem, it DOES do harm.

I can say the very same thing of atheism. Eugenics, anyone?

Also, what kind of health? Mental health? Let's not even go there...

Physical health? Haven't you heard of all the cases of people who are harmed by religious beliefs that are centered around god? Go do a google search. Better yet, look here: http://whatstheharm.net/

 

 

 

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Words Of Wisdom on 07 April 2009

I don't see why something saying there is a god would be any more or less offensive than something saying there is one.



antfromtashkent on 07 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
mrstickball said:
It's crazy that a group of people that don't believe in something try so hard to spread their message of non-belief.

If God doesn't exist, then wouldn't it be prudent not to worry about 'spreading the message'? It's not like a belief in God actually hurts anyone, or anything, or is detrimental to ones health.

It's not crazy, realists just don't like seeing people in a state of what seems like delusion. Don't stereotype all atheists as realists though, many many atheists have delusional ideas just as much as religious people.

If God doesn't exist, then whatever you want to do is your own choice. If spreading atheism is what one wants to do, then that's their choice.

Now, where do you get this idea that belief in god doesn't hurt anyone, anything, or isn't detrimental to health?

The idea of God does do harm. If you deny that you're delusional. Some people think God's on their side, thus causing them to do horrible things and feel good about themselves. I'm not saying all religious people are like this, but some are, and that's the problem, it DOES do harm.

Also, what kind of health? Mental health? Let's not even go there...

Physical health? Haven't you heard of all the cases of people who are harmed by religious beliefs that are centered around god? Go do a google search. Better yet, look here: http://whatstheharm.net/

 

 

so.... what you are saying is that people that mass murder and say that god told them to is your example of how the believe in god hurts our sosciety? ever heard of schizophrenia.... it wouldnt matter if the believe in god was there for that... they could just as well say that the "voises" told them to do it....

 

 

 

But the idea of god makes people more likely to think the voices are valid.

But I'm not only talking about people who are actually crazy and hear voices. I'm talking about perfectly sane people who think god answered their prayers when they just got lucky or waited long enough, and things of that nature.

I don't really have a problem with the idea of god when someones idea of god isn't bullshit, but when someone's idea of god involves prayer, faith, or worship, it does harm by degrading their logic.

1. You cannot blame god for every whackjob that mutters the name god after they killed 30 people..... you have absolutelly no proof that things would be any different if the "idea" of god was not there.

2. Where are you geting that information from?

3. So you think that the perfect antswer to people who ram religeon down people's throats is to create an ad that does the opposite for your cause for no reason at all?

 



WessleWoggle on 07 April 2009
mrstickball said:
WessleWoggle said:

Now, where do you get this idea that belief in god doesn't hurt anyone, anything, or isn't detrimental to health?

Probably from being a Christian my entire life, and seeing the positive impact it's had on hundreds of people I've personally met. Can religion hurt people? Absolutely. But so can a car. If used properly, it's a great thing. If used improperly, it's a terrible thing. Look at the wicked Catholic church from 500-1700AD, and the power trip they went on. That doesn't mean that 100% of religion is bad, merely the people that use it for things that it wasn't intended to be. 

Umm, so you do think the ideas of god and religion can cause harm right? That's my point. 

The idea of God does do harm. If you deny that you're delusional. Some people think God's on their side, thus causing them to do horrible things and feel good about themselves. I'm not saying all religious people are like this, but some are, and that's the problem, it DOES do harm.

I can say the very same thing of atheism. Eugenics, anyone?

You can say the same thing about atheism? So what? My point was that it caused harm when you said it doesn't harm anything. Atheism can be harmful too.

 

 

 

 

 



WessleWoggle on 07 April 2009
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
mrstickball said:
It's crazy that a group of people that don't believe in something try so hard to spread their message of non-belief.

If God doesn't exist, then wouldn't it be prudent not to worry about 'spreading the message'? It's not like a belief in God actually hurts anyone, or anything, or is detrimental to ones health.

It's not crazy, realists just don't like seeing people in a state of what seems like delusion. Don't stereotype all atheists as realists though, many many atheists have delusional ideas just as much as religious people.

If God doesn't exist, then whatever you want to do is your own choice. If spreading atheism is what one wants to do, then that's their choice.

Now, where do you get this idea that belief in god doesn't hurt anyone, anything, or isn't detrimental to health?

The idea of God does do harm. If you deny that you're delusional. Some people think God's on their side, thus causing them to do horrible things and feel good about themselves. I'm not saying all religious people are like this, but some are, and that's the problem, it DOES do harm.

Also, what kind of health? Mental health? Let's not even go there...

Physical health? Haven't you heard of all the cases of people who are harmed by religious beliefs that are centered around god? Go do a google search. Better yet, look here: http://whatstheharm.net/

 

 

so.... what you are saying is that people that mass murder and say that god told them to is your example of how the believe in god hurts our sosciety? ever heard of schizophrenia.... it wouldnt matter if the believe in god was there for that... they could just as well say that the "voises" told them to do it....

 

 

 

But the idea of god makes people more likely to think the voices are valid.

But I'm not only talking about people who are actually crazy and hear voices. I'm talking about perfectly sane people who think god answered their prayers when they just got lucky or waited long enough, and things of that nature.

I don't really have a problem with the idea of god when someones idea of god isn't bullshit, but when someone's idea of god involves prayer, faith, or worship, it does harm by degrading their logic.

1. You cannot blame god for every whackjob that mutters the name god after they killed 30 people..... you have absolutelly no proof that things would be any different if the "idea" of god was not there.

2. Where are you geting that information from?

3. So you think that the perfect antswer to people who ram religeon down people's throats is to create an ad that does the opposite for your cause for no reason at all?

 

 

 1. Umm, you're right, I can't blame god for every whackjob that murders in the name of their god. But I can say that it influenced them in a negative way.

2. Where do I get my information about sane people thinking prayer works? How about from going to church, and also hearing lots of stupid people tell stories about how they prayed and god answered their prayers.

3. I don't understand the question.