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Forums - General - I'm watching Al Gores 'An inconvenient truth'

Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
And when we pressed him to provide the names of the articles, he eventually conceded - there was only one. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1777013.htm

And for giggles:
"I do not think anyone is questioning that we are in a period of global warming. Neither do I doubt that the overwhelming majority of climatologists is agreed that the current warming period is mostly due to human impact."
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch, 12th October, 2006

1... from the critera she used.  Not total.  Once again interpretation of a source and not a direct source... which he is.
There is him directly stating something... then Mediawatch claiming something else.
Furthermore they said this proved Oresthkis correct when it did not.
You don't seem to be grapsing the issue of the misquote.
They are suggesting he admited he was wrong and that her research data was right.
When infact she ran a poorly run study, which he still maintains, and the poorly run study still did show issues with her work.

If you're saying Media Watch LIED about his backing down from "a few" to "one", I'm going to need you to produce more evidence than say-so. 

Short of that, his claim of stuff within the scope of her study that is not consistent with her claim has been reduced from 34 to one (the non-peer-reviewed AAPG thing).  Which seems to me to contradict your position "That's not at all what that says at all.  It says he's retracted some.  Not all but 1... but some... since a few were not peer reviewed.  Not close to all but 1 though."

I'm sure Oreskes' "study" is probably given more merit than it should have, but in and of itself it is not even remotely as incorrect as Peiser had claimed, and he has admitted this. 

The proof is in the article you posted.

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/ep38peiser.pdf

You can see the source Mediawatch used and how they misquoted him.

Also... for giggles.  The whole quote from what mediawatch cherry picked.

I do not think anyone is questioning that we are in a period of global warming. Neither do I doubt that the overwhelming majority of climatologists is agreed that the current warming period is mostly due to human impact. However, this majority consensus is far from unanimous.
Despite all claims to the contrary, there is a small community of sceptical researchers that remains extremely active. Hardly a week goes by without a new research paper that questions part or even some basics of climate change theory. (For the latest developments, see http://greenspin.blogspot.com/2006/10/do-i-detect-first-tiny-rumblings-of.html)
Undoubtedly, sceptical scientists are a small minority. But as long as the possible impacts of global warming remain uncertain, the public is justified to keep an open mind. How decision-makers deal with these scientific uncertainties is another matter. But it is vital for the health and integrity of science that critical evaluation and scepticism are not scorned or curbed for political reasons.



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As you see in the source. None of mediawatches claimes are actually there.

Seems like someone should be watching mediawatch.



Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
And when we pressed him to provide the names of the articles, he eventually conceded - there was only one. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1777013.htm

And for giggles:
"I do not think anyone is questioning that we are in a period of global warming. Neither do I doubt that the overwhelming majority of climatologists is agreed that the current warming period is mostly due to human impact."
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch, 12th October, 2006

1... from the critera she used.  Not total.  Once again interpretation of a source and not a direct source... which he is.
There is him directly stating something... then Mediawatch claiming something else.
Furthermore they said this proved Oresthkis correct when it did not.
You don't seem to be grapsing the issue of the misquote.
They are suggesting he admited he was wrong and that her research data was right.
When infact she ran a poorly run study, which he still maintains, and the poorly run study still did show issues with her work.

If you're saying Media Watch LIED about his backing down from "a few" to "one", I'm going to need you to produce more evidence than say-so. 

Short of that, his claim of stuff within the scope of her study that is not consistent with her claim has been reduced from 34 to one (the non-peer-reviewed AAPG thing).  Which seems to me to contradict your position "That's not at all what that says at all.  It says he's retracted some.  Not all but 1... but some... since a few were not peer reviewed.  Not close to all but 1 though."

I'm sure Oreskes' "study" is probably given more merit than it should have, but in and of itself it is not even remotely as incorrect as Peiser had claimed, and he has admitted this. 

The proof is in the article you posted.

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/ep38peiser.pdf

You can see the source Mediawatch used and how they misquoted him.

No.  Here's my interpretation: 

In fact over the last year and half since Benny Peiser wrote up his results, he's backed away from those claims.
Peiser now admits he didn't check the same articles that Naomi Oreskes used.
Which is why I no longer maintain this particular criticism. In addition, some of the abstracts that I included in the 34 "reject or doubt" category are very ambiguous and should not have been included.
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch
^ THIS IS THE QUOTE FROM THE PDF. 
So how many of the 34 articles does Benny Peiser stand by?
How many really "reject or doubt" the scientific consensus for man-made global warming?
Well when we first contacted him two weeks ago he told us...
Only [a] few abstracts explicitly reject or doubt the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) consensus which is why I have publicly withdrawn this point of my critique.
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch
^ THIS IS FROM ANOTHER EMAIL ENTIRELY
And when we pressed him to provide the names of the articles, he eventually conceded - there was only one.
(Ad Hoc Committee on Global Climate Issues: Annual report, by Gerhard LC and Hanson BM, AAPG Bulletin 84 (4): 466-471 Apr 2000)
Peiser says he withdrew his criticism in March this year.
 

Okay?  Now if you could come up with some evidence that he only admits to the content of the first email and not the others, then you'd have something. 

On his website, a short perusal does not reveal updates of any sort to the figure. 
http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/Oreskes-abstracts.htm



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Maybe he invests in companies that support his goals of reducing global warming. And unfortunately making him rich



Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
And when we pressed him to provide the names of the articles, he eventually conceded - there was only one. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1777013.htm

And for giggles:
"I do not think anyone is questioning that we are in a period of global warming. Neither do I doubt that the overwhelming majority of climatologists is agreed that the current warming period is mostly due to human impact."
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch, 12th October, 2006

1... from the critera she used.  Not total.  Once again interpretation of a source and not a direct source... which he is.
There is him directly stating something... then Mediawatch claiming something else.
Furthermore they said this proved Oresthkis correct when it did not.
You don't seem to be grapsing the issue of the misquote.
They are suggesting he admited he was wrong and that her research data was right.
When infact she ran a poorly run study, which he still maintains, and the poorly run study still did show issues with her work.

If you're saying Media Watch LIED about his backing down from "a few" to "one", I'm going to need you to produce more evidence than say-so. 

Short of that, his claim of stuff within the scope of her study that is not consistent with her claim has been reduced from 34 to one (the non-peer-reviewed AAPG thing).  Which seems to me to contradict your position "That's not at all what that says at all.  It says he's retracted some.  Not all but 1... but some... since a few were not peer reviewed.  Not close to all but 1 though."

I'm sure Oreskes' "study" is probably given more merit than it should have, but in and of itself it is not even remotely as incorrect as Peiser had claimed, and he has admitted this. 

The proof is in the article you posted.

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/ep38peiser.pdf

You can see the source Mediawatch used and how they misquoted him.

No.  Here's my interpretation: 

In fact over the last year and half since Benny Peiser wrote up his results, he's backed away from those claims.
Peiser now admits he didn't check the same articles that Naomi Oreskes used.
Which is why I no longer maintain this particular criticism. In addition, some of the abstracts that I included in the 34 "reject or doubt" category are very ambiguous and should not have been included.
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch
^ THIS IS THE QUOTE FROM THE PDF. 
So how many of the 34 articles does Benny Peiser stand by?
How many really "reject or doubt" the scientific consensus for man-made global warming?
Well when we first contacted him two weeks ago he told us...
Only [a] few abstracts explicitly reject or doubt the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) consensus which is why I have publicly withdrawn this point of my critique.
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch
^ THIS IS FROM ANOTHER EMAIL ENTIRELY
And when we pressed him to provide the names of the articles, he eventually conceded - there was only one.
(Ad Hoc Committee on Global Climate Issues: Annual report, by Gerhard LC and Hanson BM, AAPG Bulletin 84 (4): 466-471 Apr 2000)
Peiser says he withdrew his criticism in March this year.
 

Okay?  Now if you could come up with some evidence that he only admits to the content of the first email and not the others, then you'd have something. 

On his website, a short perusal does not reveal updates of any sort to the figure. 
http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/Oreskes-abstracts.htm

And where is this second email?  The first is availble but the second isn't?

When talked to by Solomon... as seen in the pervious article I posted.  He claims the wikipedia entry is false.

"Naturally I was surprised to read on Wikipedia that Oreskes’s work had been vindicated and that, for instance, one of her most thorough critics, British scientist and publisher Bennie Peiser, not only had been discredited but had grudgingly conceded Oreskes was right.

I checked with Peiser, who said he had done no such thing."



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Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
If you're saying Media Watch LIED about his backing down from "a few" to "one", I'm going to need you to produce more evidence than say-so. 

Short of that, his claim of stuff within the scope of her study that is not consistent with her claim has been reduced from 34 to one (the non-peer-reviewed AAPG thing).  Which seems to me to contradict your position "That's not at all what that says at all.  It says he's retracted some.  Not all but 1... but some... since a few were not peer reviewed.  Not close to all but 1 though."

I'm sure Oreskes' "study" is probably given more merit than it should have, but in and of itself it is not even remotely as incorrect as Peiser had claimed, and he has admitted this.
The proof is in the article you posted.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/ep38peiser.pdf
You can see the source Mediawatch used and how they misquoted him.
No.  Here's my interpretation: 

In fact over the last year and half since Benny Peiser wrote up his results, he's backed away from those claims.
Peiser now admits he didn't check the same articles that Naomi Oreskes used.
Which is why I no longer maintain this particular criticism. In addition, some of the abstracts that I included in the 34 "reject or doubt" category are very ambiguous and should not have been included.
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch
^ THIS IS THE QUOTE FROM THE PDF. 
So how many of the 34 articles does Benny Peiser stand by?
How many really "reject or doubt" the scientific consensus for man-made global warming?
Well when we first contacted him two weeks ago he told us...
Only [a] few abstracts explicitly reject or doubt the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) consensus which is why I have publicly withdrawn this point of my critique.
— Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch
^ THIS IS FROM ANOTHER EMAIL ENTIRELY
And when we pressed him to provide the names of the articles, he eventually conceded - there was only one.
(Ad Hoc Committee on Global Climate Issues: Annual report, by Gerhard LC and Hanson BM, AAPG Bulletin 84 (4): 466-471 Apr 2000)
Peiser says he withdrew his criticism in March this year.
 

Okay?  Now if you could come up with some evidence that he only admits to the content of the first email and not the others, then you'd have something. 

On his website, a short perusal does not reveal updates of any sort to the figure. 
http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/Oreskes-abstracts.htm
And where is this second email?  The first is availble but the second isn't?

When talked to by Solomon... as seen in the pervious article I posted.  He claims the wikipedia entry is false.

"Naturally I was surprised to read on Wikipedia that Oreskes’s work had been vindicated and that, for instance, one of her most thorough critics, British scientist and publisher Bennie Peiser, not only had been discredited but had grudgingly conceded Oreskes was right.

I checked with Peiser, who said he had done no such thing."

Correct.  I don't pretend to know why they didn't include that email as well.  [edit:  You'll notice that the other quotes, the ones that CAN be found in the PDF, have the link by them, while the one that can't doesn't.]

Why should we give that guy any more, or even equal, credence with Media Watch?  In fact, look at the question that guy asked.  'Did you concede that Oreskes was right?'*  That is a completely different thing from what Media Watch says.  And glancing at the edit history in wikipedia it looks like the "conceding" as indeed that he backed down to the one article, and not conceding his disputation entirely MUCH LESS that Oreskes was "right".  So Media Watch and Peiser can both be perfectly compatible if we only conclude that Summers asked Peiser the wrong question.  I'll check the Wikipedia history more thoroughly later.

[edit:  Exact quote:  "Naturally I was surprised to read on Wikipedia that Oreskes’s work had been vindicated and that, for instance, one of her most thorough critics, British scientist and publisher Bennie Peiser, not only had been discredited but had grudgingly conceded Oreskes was right.

["I checked with Peiser, who said he had done no such thing."]

[edit2:  After checking through what I think is all the relevant edits, the only thing I spotted that even remotely resembled an allegation that Peiser conceded that Oreskes was right was an 'edit remark' where the editor said something like "he admitted he was wrong", not specifying whether it was his position or his critique (albeit in neither case is that completely accurate).  In any case no such claim was ever in the Wikipedia article that I saw.]



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Once again quoting the same article. (You have read this article correct?)

"Peiser wrote back saying he couldn’t see my corrections on the Wikipedia page. made the changes again, and this time confirmed that the changes had been saved."

Peiser himself looked over the wikipedia entry and said he did not see the changes. Had there been any sort of miscommunication between Solomon and Peiser over the content of the Wikipedia article would not Peiser have noticed when he checked for the corrections?

Clearly Peiser thought the Wikipedia article was wrong... and was looking for Solomon's corrections which did not appear.

 



Kasz216 said:
Once again quoting the same article. (You have read this article correct?)

"Peiser wrote back saying he couldn’t see my corrections on the Wikipedia page.
made the changes again, and this time confirmed that the changes had been saved."

Peiser himself looked over the wikipedia entry and said he did not see the changes. Had there been any sort of miscommunication between Solomon and Peiser over the content of the Wikipedia article would not Peiser have noticed when he checked for the corrections?

Clearly Peiser thought the Wikipedia article was wrong... and was looking for Solomon's corrections which did not appear.

Perhaps Solomon detailed what he had edited so that Peiser would know what to look for (and obviously failed to find). 

I defy you to find a portion of any of the incarnations of that Wikipedia article that have text that could be characterized as saying that "Oreskes’s work had been vindicated and that, for instance, one of her most thorough critics, British scientist and publisher Bennie Peiser, not only had been discredited but had grudgingly conceded Oreskes was right".
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Naomi_Oreskes&diff=prev&oldid=201071198



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Once again quoting the same article. (You have read this article correct?)

"Peiser wrote back saying he couldn’t see my corrections on the Wikipedia page.
made the changes again, and this time confirmed that the changes had been saved."

Peiser himself looked over the wikipedia entry and said he did not see the changes. Had there been any sort of miscommunication between Solomon and Peiser over the content of the Wikipedia article would not Peiser have noticed when he checked for the corrections?

Clearly Peiser thought the Wikipedia article was wrong... and was looking for Solomon's corrections which did not appear.

Perhaps Solomon detailed what he had edited so that Peiser would know what to look for (and obviously failed to find). 

I defy you to find a portion of any of the incarnations of that Wikipedia article that have text that could be characterized as saying that "Oreskes’s work had been vindicated and that, for instance, one of her most thorough critics, British scientist and publisher Bennie Peiser, not only had been discredited but had grudgingly conceded Oreskes was right".
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Naomi_Oreskes&diff=prev&oldid=201071198

And failing to find it he would of found what the wikipedia entry did say no?

How could he check for the information without reading what actually says?

That explination is really grasping for straws... and quite honestly pretty intellectually dishonest.

Assuming i have your expination correct which is "Peiser looked for what Solomon wrote, uet nothing else to see whether he actually agreed with what was presented there or not."



Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Once again quoting the same article. (You have read this article correct?)

"Peiser wrote back saying he couldn’t see my corrections on the Wikipedia page.
made the changes again, and this time confirmed that the changes had been saved."

Peiser himself looked over the wikipedia entry and said he did not see the changes. Had there been any sort of miscommunication between Solomon and Peiser over the content of the Wikipedia article would not Peiser have noticed when he checked for the corrections?

Clearly Peiser thought the Wikipedia article was wrong... and was looking for Solomon's corrections which did not appear.

Perhaps Solomon detailed what he had edited so that Peiser would know what to look for (and obviously failed to find). 

I defy you to find a portion of any of the incarnations of that Wikipedia article that have text that could be characterized as saying that "Oreskes’s work had been vindicated and that, for instance, one of her most thorough critics, British scientist and publisher Bennie Peiser, not only had been discredited but had grudgingly conceded Oreskes was right".
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Naomi_Oreskes&diff=prev&oldid=201071198

And failing to find it he would of found what the wikipedia entry did say no?

That explination is really grasping for straws... and quite honestly pretty intellectually dishonest.

Yes, he found what it did say.  Unless I misrecall, we never find out what Peiser's actual thoughts are on any specific thing in the Wikipedia article, only his refutation of Solomon's paranoid fantasy WHICH NEVER EXISTED IN THE ARTICLE. 

Honestly, explain to me why I am being intellectually dishonest and I might forgive you for making me read that embarrasing rant.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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