Funny that the problem all started when the government started dicking with capitalism, and now you want to blame capitalism.
| TheRealMafoo said: Funny that the problem all started when the government started dicking with capitalism, and now you want to blame capitalism. |
Funny that it was extreme capitalism that caused the entire crisis.
Extreme capitalism is caused by inefficient government that incentivized bad behavior. The subprime crisis would of never started if the CRA hadn't incentivized the banks trying to court high-risk (ie, poor) consumers.
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
| mrstickball said: Extreme capitalism is caused by inefficient government that incentivized bad behavior. The subprime crisis would of never started if the CRA hadn't incentivized the banks trying to court high-risk (ie, poor) consumers. |
This. This....
This.
So...obviously it had nothing to do with the securitization of mortgages which were being sold on the market like they were pure gold.
It was all the CRA, lurking around since 1977 that had been planning and plotting this. It had nothing to do with all the Wall Street firms getting up to their eyeballs on the secondary mortgage market, which didn't even exist when this legislation was passed.
It was definitely nothing but the CRA.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
| akuma587 said: So...obviously it had nothing to do with the securitization of mortgages which were being sold on the market like they were pure gold. It was all the CRA, lurking around since 1977 that had been planning and plotting this. It had nothing to do with all the Wall Street firms getting up to their eyeballs on the secondary mortgage market, which didn't even exist when this legislation was passed. It was definitely nothing but the CRA. |
So a forest fire should not be blamed on the man who threw a match in the woods. It's really the fault of the trees.
Those mortgages should not have been around in the first place. If the government had not messed with capitalism, we would not be in this mess, period. You can try and push blame anywhere you like, but the fact is this is not the fault of capitalism.
As for the mess that you speak of, yes that as well should have not been allowed to happen. It does not make this mess less the fault of government.
So...are you trying to say that the government invented mortgage securitization and credit default swaps? Why didn't something like this happen in 1987, or 1997, why did it happen conveniently right after mortgage backed securities became the topic of the week on Wall Street?
You should blame it on the trees when they douse themselves in gasoline and have a huge orgy next to a raging inferno. Yes, I think it is fair to blame the trees under those circumstances.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
The problem started in 1997, the second the government increased the demand for homes by 10% (incentivizing sub prime loans to get the number of home buyers from 60% to 66%).
This caused the demand for homes to go up, builders started making more homes, so government incentivized more, and the percentage went up even more (to 75%).
The home market fell for one reason, and one reason only. Builders caught up. When the supply finally met demand, people could no longer borrow against the increased value of there home to pay for a loan they should have never had in the first place.
So this problem started in 1997, it just took 10 years for builders to build enough homes.
But the slump in the housing market isn't what caused the recession to be this bad. The housing market slumped long before people started freaking out about the economy. The DOW wasn't affected at all. The DOW plunged when Lehman Brothers went under. The slump in the housing market was nothing compared to the Wall Street explosion.
It wasn't until the news came out that Wall Street had gorged themselves on mortgage backed securities that many of them knew were bogus that things started falling apart. They just kept passing them along thinking that the fun would never end.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
| akuma587 said: But the slump in the housing market isn't what caused the recession to be this bad. |
it's the single reason we are here. Those securities only exist because of the artificial market for homes that the government made. The "slump" as you call it is still going on, and it's not getting better. We just had an increase last month in foreclosures (second month in a row), and the value of homes dropped by a record number last month.
Bill Clinton wanted lower income people to buy homes because it's the best way to generate wealth. If that's true (and I think it is), it also means it's the best way to lose wealth as well. For most people in this country, the only thing they own with any real value is property. That property is worth 10, 20, 30% less then it was a few years ago, and it continues to fall.
The housing market (and everything it touches), is why we are here.
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