By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - US Education Reform

Username2324 said:
That Guy said:

This became an interesting topic on like page 20 of another thread, and I think it deserves its own thread.

Obviously the US Education system needs fixing. Kids keep falling through the cracks, Teachers are overworked and underpaid. Incompetant teachers with tenure are pretty much untouchable due to crazy union laws. How would YOU fix it?

I disagree with this statement. In my experience a great many teachers are pretty much failures. In my school years I had maybe 3 teachers that had an actual interest in their students and would qualify as "overworked".

Just think about the job they do, they always get weekends off, they get a 3 month vacation every year, and they get all (if not Most) holidays off. Their job is important no doubt about it, but Teachers, atleast day-wise work less than anyone else.

I think in high school we were in class about 190 days a year, that means they were working about the same. That's half the year off.

You do know that when teachers go home they have to grade all your homework, right?  In fact, many times they end up grading homework on weekends or holidays.



Around the Network
The Ghost of RubangB said:

You do know that when teachers go home they have to grade all your homework, right?  In fact, many times they end up grading homework on weekends or holidays.

 

Perhaps they shouldn't assign homework then :)



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

1) Put more money into the system
2) Take away some of the Teacher's Unions power
3) Pay qualified teachers more and give them raises more often
4) Don't hesitate to fire unqualified teachers
5) (Maybe) Peer review system like professor's currently have



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

I tend to think that if you did #2-4, you wouldn't even have to bother with #1.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

so, your solution is to dump anyone born into a poorer family with over 100k in debt? just what every parent wants for there child, lots of debt from day 1 of there working life

 

You would pay it back at whatever rate we pay for education now.

If that's 7%, I am paying (and every one in the US) that rate for life. I never get to stop paying it.

With this system, you only pay what you would have paid anyway, but you get to stop once your burden is paid off.

Also, with a world class education, the kids of poor parents won't be poor. It's like sending them to the best private school in the country, with no downside.

yeah, that wont work, the private sector only cares about profits, they wont accept most of the poor kids who have take out loans to pay for there education, the private schools could also decide they dont want to teach art or music or history, what then? the problem is that the private sector does not have the students best intrests at heart, as for parents, unless theyre teachers, theyre unlikely to know what there child should or shouldnt learn

Your such a nut job.

First off, every parent gets a voucher for each child. It does not mater if they are poor or not. The child to the school, is 20k. They don't care how much money there parents have.

Poor people live in more concentrated area's, and tend to have more children. So schools in poor areas will have more money, they rich ones.

In capitalism, profit rules. profit is obtained by providing the best service. If you can take your child to any of 10 schools on the local area, the ones that don't provide the best education fail.

Schools will not provide the best services out of the goodness of there hearts, they will do it to attract business. It's why the US has some of the best food, stores, hotel service, etc... The consumer demands it, thus those who survive do so by providing it.

And your extremely misguided if you think parents of all incomes are not extremely interested in there child's education. Just because your poor, does not mean you don't care, or understand what your kids should learn. Stop listening to the media.

 

bold: posts that start with insults never go anywher good
italics: and that worked great for the financial sector didnt it?
underlined: its unlikely they would have expert knowledge enought to judge what there child should and shouldnt learn, some of them for example might not want there child to be taught science (if theyre like a fundementalist of some religion)

in addition, parents can hold the government to account for failings and errors, they cant hold a private school to account as the school dosent have to listen, the private sector allways has its own agenda, whats to stop schools from forcing there political or religous views on the children? whats to stop private schools giving certian people prefferential treatment? state education is the only way to go, its fair, can be held to account and is cost effective if done properly and funded by progressive taxation.

 



Around the Network
Username2324 said:
That Guy said:
their 3 month vacation is quite a perk, but at the same time they do not get paid for it, either. Its more like a 3 month furlough

A part time job during that time wouldn't be all that difficult, and like I said, unlike most people they don't have to request a holiday off, the students get it, so the teachers get it.

 

If you think that teachers work less than other jobs, hahahaha, you clearly don't know any teachers.



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

SciFiBoy said:

italics: and that worked great for the financial sector didnt it? It's worked better than the alternative of communism.
underlined: its unlikely they would have expert knowledge enought to judge what there child should and shouldnt learn, some of them for example might not want there child to be taught science (if theyre like a fundementalist of some religion)

in addition, parents can hold the government to account for failings and errors, they cant hold a private school to account as the school dosent have to listen, the private sector allways has its own agenda, whats to stop schools from forcing there political or religous views on the children? whats to stop private schools giving certian people prefferential treatment? state education is the only way to go, its fair, can be held to account and is cost effective if done properly and funded by progressive taxation.

 

Parents can hold the private sector accountable for failings and errors. It's called pulling your kids out of the school, and going somewhere else. If someone doesn't like shopping at a particular store, getting gas from one station, or playing on one kind of video game system, they can easily pull their money out of that store/business, and go somewhere else. That is why capitalism works: The consumer has the ultimate say in the matter, and the business has to benefit the consumer, or they will go somewhere else.

Furthermore, in the American system of schooling, citizens 'can' vote out board members, and exert their will on the system. Problem is that it takes place every 2-4 years for voting, and they are pretty much screwed till then. In some cases, they forget what happened and fail to take prompt action. This is why privatization is better: Consumers vote immediately. If a school does something bad, then the students could be taken out of school immediately, and funds would dry up rapidly, killing the school. Thats why it would be much, much better than the current system, which allows as many abuses by teachers like the Catholic Church allows for thier pedophile priests.

And there you go again with your progressive taxation speel. Did you know that the American system for education doesn't tax progressively? It taxes based on property ownership, and not income.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

SciFiBoy said:

in addition, parents can hold the government to account for failings and errors, they cant hold a private school to account as the school dosent have to listen, the private sector allways has its own agenda, whats to stop schools from forcing there political or religous views on the children? whats to stop private schools giving certian people prefferential treatment? state education is the only way to go, its fair, can be held to account and is cost effective if done properly and funded by progressive taxation.

 

 

Everything in this paragraph is wrong. Everything.

If you don’t like what the school is teaching your kids, change schools. In the UK, if you don’t like the school your children are in, what’s your options?

Also, the last sentience is funny. You can have an inefficient system that you make the rich pay, but doing so does not make it “cost effective”. It just makes a very non cost effective system paid for by the rich.

Collecting taxes and spending taxes are totally independent. Finding ways to collect more money to pay for an inefficient system is a very poor solution to the problem. If you’re spending too much money on something, fix it.



That Guy said:

This became an interesting topic on like page 20 of another thread, and I think it deserves its own thread.

Obviously the US Education system needs fixing. Kids keep falling through the cracks, Teachers are overworked and underpaid. Incompetant teachers with tenure are pretty much untouchable due to crazy union laws. How would YOU fix it?


You'd be surprised.

The Department of Education in cleveland used to have a website where you could see what teachers made.  They made so much that the site got taken down because people got pissed.

For example Cleveland City schools are facing a shortfall of 83 million dollars.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/budget_deficit_could_force_cle.html

This equals the average pay and benefits of 900 teachers.

So a quick review of the math.

83 million/900 teachers =  $92,222.23

$90,000 a year isn't underpaid for 9 months work.   That's 10K a month.

Cleveland City schools are some of the worst in the area.

It's not a matter of funds in Clevelands case at the very least.

 

The average Salary for a teacher is something like 50K not counting Benefits... which almost all of them get.


I mean 50K for 9 months work I wouldn't call underpaid... espeically when most classes the same syllabus and assignments can be used year after year.

These numbers are straight from the AFT by the way. (American Federation of Teachers.)



I agree

It has pretty much become a pass of your school lose funding b/c of no child left behind, not to mention there are some teachers that do it fro the wrong reason, and then there is to many people trying to make policy that have never been in the classroom, and teachers are no longer really protected from parents that want an easy court case, to much politics in school, ...the list goes on

But not all teachers are bad, and not all programs are bad

My wife works from 7:45 in the morning to 5 in the after noon (that’s just at school) then she comes home and has to grade papers, go over lesson plans, and since she is in special ed she has all these reports she has to write—so some days she wakes up and goes to bed working

So I don’t bust her chops about getting bigger breaks


But being on the front line I can tell you some things that do need to change

Year round school—it seem s to be a better plan then what we have, more staff to lower the student teacher ratio, better funding for after school programs and the arts, a clean up of the politics, no longer should you be allowed to be a principle unless you have spent at least 15 years on the front lines (as in the classroom)