Think of it as paying insurance against crime. With welfare payments the crime rate in a country is significantly lower.

Thank you, kind sir, you've just sparked a Helen Lovejoy scene in my head, I'm now chuckling.

Anyways, are you saying that I shouldn't vote Labour in the next election because they promised to stop child poverty in the UK by 2020? (I'm joking ofc).

so, people on benefits deserve no rights?

youre also making the assumption that ALL people on benefits misuse the money and abuse there kids, which is utter nonsense

I'm usually an advocate for civil liberties, but this is one of the three places where I don't necessarily think they're priority (the others being speed and gun control).

The fact of the matter is that people on benefits are given the money for three reasons:

 - To stay alive
 - To lead a life where they don't have to worry about the necessities in life
 - To support the community

They are given the money for these reasons, and they should only be using the money for these things. People cannot be trusted to do this themselves - and so the Government should intervene to make sure that their money is being well spent, especially when there are children involved.

If the people want to earn some money on the side by cleaning a couple of houses, or by working on a market stall, or something, then any money that they earn from that they are allowed to spend how they want without the Government knowing, as it's their money to spend, not anyone elses.

Whatsmore, I'm personally of the belief that child benefits should be higher, as what my parents personally receive is no where near how much it costs to look after us. Fortunately, they can easily pay for us ourselves, and we don't actually need the benefit - other people aren't as fortunate, and should be given ours, in all honesty. But, alas, that's a topic for another day.

You have to right to spend what ever money is yours, i.e. whatever money you EARN, on whatever you want.

You don't have the right to spend other people's money. i.e. money you haven't EARNED, on whatever you want.

How can you even argue this.  Everytime you post in a thread, I just tell myself that you're playing devils advocate, just to keep the discussion going.  I'm just going to keep telling myself that...

For someone that hates getting misrepresented so much, you sure are good at doing it yourself.

1. I never said they deserve no rights. I said they don't deserve the right to privacy in the context that the government can check or monitor how the money they personally hand the person is being spent. This helps to make sure the right people are getting the money and can cut down on abusers. There's a very simple solution for those that have a problem with being told how to spend their handouts, don't accept them and find your own work.

2. I never assumed all people on benefits are abusers. Show me where in my topic I said that. Some people are abusers, and the government should have a way to find them out and kick them off the program in favor of someone that will not abuse a handout.

I dont like people mispending there benefits anymore than you, but i dont think its fair to tell them how to spend money, however, if you suggest that rather than money, we give them a home, food enough to live off healthily (more if they really need it) and the means to seek employment (transportation, like a bus pass, rail pass, etc) thats fine, but if you give people money, then you have to accept they may spend it on things they dont need

That's not misrepresenting.  That's reality.

By not making sure where the money is going children will be abused and used as cash cows.

Hence why the government should deal in the actual goods and not hand out money.

I think we're getting a bit off topic. Ultimately this is about whether or not random drug testing should be allowed for people on welfare. I'm in favor because when you enter an agreement whether it's welfare or a job there's the possibility you are signing away your rights to keep a drug addiction private by surrending to the random testing. I accept it at my employer and government employees get treated the exact same way, and if I can do so then I feel so can people accepting government handouts.

thats fine, i think that would work better anyway, it would give them more incentive to work, think about it, you get all the basics no matter what, thats fine, but we all want more, so we work for any extras we want