Down with the CDC and required 'immunization,' whatever that means.

SciFiBoy said: TheRealMafoo said: SciFiBoy said: shortly after the US was founded you had a civil war over the treatment of slaves, your ideas would treat the working class as slaves, perhaps you like that idea? are you some sort of wealthy man who wants to own 5 or 6 slaves?     No, I a man who worked as a buss boy when I was 18, sometimes living off of nothing more then 20 dollars a month for food. I now live a very good lifestyle (porsche 911 convertible, 2300 sqft home on 14 acres, boat, etc..), all because I applied myself, worked my way through school, and worked harder then the next guy at every job I have had. I still work 50 hours a week (10 on my own time). I never took anything from anyone, including government assistance.   most people on minimum wage work 37-50 hours a week, so no you didnt/dont work harder than most people, lots of people do well at school, not all get well paid jobs, some want jobs that dont pay well like nursing, so no you are not superior than the rest of us, you just think you are cause your paid more now

 

If I thought some people were superior to others, I would be a democrat (as some people need help, while others don't). I feel anyone who applies themselves can be where I am today.

My political views are because I feel I am not superior.

And in my field, where I work, people work 35-40 hours a week (software developer). if they worked 50, I would work 60.

The only real trick to success, is working harder/smarter then the next guy. We have 6 developers in our shop. If we went down to 1, it would be me. I work very hard to make sure I am the last one they want to let go. It insures I will always have work.

I am no better then the other 5, I just work harder at it. When did hard work go out of fashion?

SciFiBoy said: Broncos724 said: SciFiBoy said: coolestguyever said: SciFiBoy said: use Progressive Taxation to raise more money, then make a NHS in the US, afterall healthcare is a basic human right   Progressive taxation: Punishing people for working hard - rewarding the poor   wrong, statistics show someone on the average wage works the same hours as someone in a multi-million dollar hedge fund   The number of hours one works is not the sole determiner of how "hard" someone works.  And yes, progressive taxation is a dis-incentive to working harder, how could it NOT be?   because a banker who earns 500k a year and failed there employer works alot harder than a nurse on 20-30k year who makes people feel better, somehow i dont think so, progressive taxation is fair as you pay what you can afford to pay rather than making the poor pay more than 600k a year financial sector workers

I never claimed salary was the indicator of how hard someone works, either.  But I agree with you, in terms of physical and mental labor, those with lower salaries or who are low on the "ladder" work harder, so they can rise.  But how do you think the 100K+ bankers got where they are?  Hard work of course!  Not sure what "making people feel better" has to do with this argument though?

Fair to me is paying the same percentage of your income to taxes as everyone else.  And it still means the poorer you are, the less you pay, so what's unfair about that?

 

TheRealMafoo said: SciFiBoy said: TheRealMafoo said: SciFiBoy said: shortly after the US was founded you had a civil war over the treatment of slaves, your ideas would treat the working class as slaves, perhaps you like that idea? are you some sort of wealthy man who wants to own 5 or 6 slaves?     No, I a man who worked as a buss boy when I was 18, sometimes living off of nothing more then 20 dollars a month for food. I now live a very good lifestyle (porsche 911 convertible, 2300 sqft home on 14 acres, boat, etc..), all because I applied myself, worked my way through school, and worked harder then the next guy at every job I have had. I still work 50 hours a week (10 on my own time). I never took anything from anyone, including government assistance.   most people on minimum wage work 37-50 hours a week, so no you didnt/dont work harder than most people, lots of people do well at school, not all get well paid jobs, some want jobs that dont pay well like nursing, so no you are not superior than the rest of us, you just think you are cause your paid more now   If I thought some people were superior to others, I would be a democrat (as some people need help, while others don't). I feel anyone who applies themselves can be where I am today. My political views are because I feel I am not superior. And in my field, where I work, people work 35-40 hours a week (software developer). if they worked 50, I would work 60. The only real trick to success, is working harder/smarter then the next guy. We have 6 developers in our shop. If we went down to 1, it would be me. I work very hard to make sure I am the last one they want to let go. It insures I will always have work. I am no better then the other 5, I just work harder at it. When did hard work go out of fashion?

 

define hard work? id argue a nurse or police man works harder than any software developer and the nurse/policeman are doing a more important job, why do you deserve to be paid twice as much as them and why dont they deserve basic stuff like free healthcare and education for there kids?

SciFiBoy said: TheRealMafoo said: im_sneaky said: Health care is a right. If you get a disease, you deserve to be treated. The end. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, but health care is a right. The end. Health care is not a right. If you get a disease, you need to be responsible for yourself. The end. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, but health care is not a right. The end.   yes, because anyone who cant afford private healthcare has the knowledge to treat themselves, oh wait they dont, so without healthcare they get ill, then they cant work, then jobs arent done, then rich people cant have nice things as theres no one to make them, no mansion for you mafoo, you refused to keep the people who could build it alive, enjoy living on the decrepit streets that have no one to maintain them

 

Wow, can you say “extreme”. No one in the US goes without healthcare. It's why it's so expensive. The people with it pay for those without.

In the US, if you get sick, you go to the hospital, and you're treated. The only issue is how much it cost. If you can't afford it, you still get it. You might have a bill for the rest of your life, but you will never be turned away (it's against the law to do so). The US also does not have debtors prison, so you can't be thrown in jail.

Now, do rich people get better care? Yes. But they always will. You can't stop that.

The problem in the US is the cost, not so much the care (although it could be better). We could do a better job of prevention, but it can always be better.

Broncos724 said: SciFiBoy said: Broncos724 said: SciFiBoy said: coolestguyever said: SciFiBoy said: use Progressive Taxation to raise more money, then make a NHS in the US, afterall healthcare is a basic human right   Progressive taxation: Punishing people for working hard - rewarding the poor   wrong, statistics show someone on the average wage works the same hours as someone in a multi-million dollar hedge fund   The number of hours one works is not the sole determiner of how "hard" someone works.  And yes, progressive taxation is a dis-incentive to working harder, how could it NOT be?   because a banker who earns 500k a year and failed there employer works alot harder than a nurse on 20-30k year who makes people feel better, somehow i dont think so, progressive taxation is fair as you pay what you can afford to pay rather than making the poor pay more than 600k a year financial sector workers I never claimed salary was the indicator of how hard someone works, either.  But I agree with you, in terms of physical and mental labor, those with lower salaries or who are low on the "ladder" work harder, so they can rise.  But how do you think the 100K+ bankers got where they are?  Hard work of course!  Not sure what "making people feel better" has to do with this argument though? Fair to me is paying the same percentage of your income to taxes as everyone else.  And it still means the poorer you are, the less you pay, so what's unfair about that?

 

so anyone who dosent earn enough to get private healthcare just isnt working hard enough and deserves to die from cureable diseases, thats good to know, besides how can you define hard work? surely a low paid nurse works harder than a programmer but the nurse is payed much less and may like her job and be happy to stay in it, we do need nurses afterall, if everyone got promoted, no-one would do low paid jobs that are essential to any nation, also like i said you should pay in tax what you can afford to pay in tax, thats fair, and that will help thoose less fortunate then you to get healthcare and an education.

"If I thought some people were superior to others, I would be a democrat (as some people need help, while others don't)."

This is such an insane misrepresentation of others' beliefs I find it hard to believe you really think so, but unable to escape the conclusion that you do.

(The above paragraph is based on me interpreting the quoted passage as you thinking that Democrats believe that a person is inferior to another because one of them needs help. I really don't see any other way to read that, but I just wanted to be as explicit as possible due to my strong words above. Needing help does not make a person inferior, and wanting to give help does not mean I think they are inferior.)

TheRealMafoo said: SciFiBoy said: TheRealMafoo said: im_sneaky said: Health care is a right. If you get a disease, you deserve to be treated. The end. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, but health care is a right. The end. Health care is not a right. If you get a disease, you need to be responsible for yourself. The end. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, but health care is not a right. The end.   yes, because anyone who cant afford private healthcare has the knowledge to treat themselves, oh wait they dont, so without healthcare they get ill, then they cant work, then jobs arent done, then rich people cant have nice things as theres no one to make them, no mansion for you mafoo, you refused to keep the people who could build it alive, enjoy living on the decrepit streets that have no one to maintain them     Wow, can you say “extreme”. No one in the US goes without healthcare. It's why it's so expensive. The people with it pay for those without. In the US, if you get sick, you go to the hospital, and you're treated. The only issue is how much it cost. If you can't afford it, you still get it. You might have a bill for the rest of your life, but you will never be turned away (it's against the law to do so). The US also does not have debtors prison, so you can't be thrown in jail. Now, do rich people get better care? Yes. But they always will. You can't stop that. The problem in the US is the cost, not so much the care (although it could be better). We could do a better job of prevention, but it can always be better.

 

why should they have another bill to pay, poor people pay enough as is in taxes and stuff, that medical bill may just mean they cant afford to eat that week

SciFiBoy said: TheRealMafoo said: SciFiBoy said: TheRealMafoo said: SciFiBoy said: shortly after the US was founded you had a civil war over the treatment of slaves, your ideas would treat the working class as slaves, perhaps you like that idea? are you some sort of wealthy man who wants to own 5 or 6 slaves?     No, I a man who worked as a buss boy when I was 18, sometimes living off of nothing more then 20 dollars a month for food. I now live a very good lifestyle (porsche 911 convertible, 2300 sqft home on 14 acres, boat, etc..), all because I applied myself, worked my way through school, and worked harder then the next guy at every job I have had. I still work 50 hours a week (10 on my own time). I never took anything from anyone, including government assistance.   most people on minimum wage work 37-50 hours a week, so no you didnt/dont work harder than most people, lots of people do well at school, not all get well paid jobs, some want jobs that dont pay well like nursing, so no you are not superior than the rest of us, you just think you are cause your paid more now   If I thought some people were superior to others, I would be a democrat (as some people need help, while others don't). I feel anyone who applies themselves can be where I am today. My political views are because I feel I am not superior. And in my field, where I work, people work 35-40 hours a week (software developer). if they worked 50, I would work 60. The only real trick to success, is working harder/smarter then the next guy. We have 6 developers in our shop. If we went down to 1, it would be me. I work very hard to make sure I am the last one they want to let go. It insures I will always have work. I am no better then the other 5, I just work harder at it. When did hard work go out of fashion?   define hard work? id argue a nurse or police man works harder than any software developer and the nurse/policeman are doing a more important job, why do you deserve to be paid twice as much as them and why dont they deserve basic stuff like free healthcare and education for there kids?

 

I am going to say this big and in bold, so you get it..

NOTHING IS FREE

To give something to someone, you first have to take it from someone else. What gives you the right to take from others?

I would agree with your argument in a Communist country, but in the US, any Police or Nurse can be a software developer, and make my salary. No one is denied the opportunity. The chose those professions. And I think all Police and Nurses have insurance options.

Also, I think the healthcare industry needs to be reformed (I said that before), so even someone who is working minimum wage can afford healthcare. The system now is broken.

That does not mean give it to them however. Everyone needs to earn it. It's not a right.

SciFiBoy said: Tyrannical said: The US couldn't afford a NHS anyways until immigration is brought under control.   eh? why shouldnt immigrants get healthcare? you do know that the US wouldnt exist without immingration right?

The US was built primary by Western European immigrants. The whole "melting pot" cliche referred to the various European ethnic groups such as the French, Irish, Italian, German, English forming one cohesive American culture. We wouldn't have a health care crisis if not for the waves of third world immigrants looking for a free handout. We are not obligated to allow them entry when we can not afford to take care of them.