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Forums - General - Question about what Obama just said.

Final-Fan on 25 March 2009
jv103 said:
mrstickball said:
jv103 said:
mrstickball said:
Try going to college for 8 years, then working 16hrs a day on double shifts, then watching someone that does no work get paid close to what you do. You'll start to see things differently.

For an entire year, I woke up at 4am every weekday, worked 60hrs a week, and made $8.00hr + overtime. No benefits. It's called unskilled labor. You see, in an economy, some people do things that are more valuable than others. They have the ability to do, say, and understand things better than others. Because of this, they may be entitled to earn compensation that exeedes those that work the same number of hours, but did not put any time into education, to do a good job.
Italicized part: Really? Stock Brokers do something more valuable than, dentists, doctors, farmers or even contractors/builders?

Bold: This type of rationalization typically comes when we try to explain inequity and chance. In reality differences are probably marginal, and most of what we deem success is not on individual ability but rather fortune/chance. Of course if you believe that their is some sort of supreme order or logic to the world, then of course that would entail chaos and would be very frightening.
Stock brokers help allocate investor funding in projects that can be critical for the development of a nation. Dentists, builders, doctors and farmers may rely on investments to start up their practices, as they've most likely spent their money on education, or equipment for their field. You may not agree that stock brokers need paid real well (and I can agree with you that they're overpaid), but their market dictates that they can earn a lot.

So you think that Brett Farve being a better QB than Ryan Leaf was entirely up to fortune? Chance allows Pele to be a better football player than Kyle Patterson? Yes, fortune and chance may be in the case of some, but it's certainly not in the majority. If chance and fortune dictated life, then every nation in the world would be equal in development.
On an individual level it's easy to say that x person has greater abilties than y person. My point was that on a larger scale, yes chance plays a larger role than ability. Brett Favre may be one of the greatest quarterbacks, out of people who tried out to play quarterback, who had the urge, or the encouragement to play quarterback, who happened to get accepted to a division one school which aided him in his transition into the nfl. Yes, he has the ability to play quarterback, but I think there are hundreds of people out their who could do the same, or even better.

Bold - How exactly? Wouldn't that be a case that shows chance really dictates life? Like the chance that some chauffer would do a three-point turn instead of driving straight ahead, giving a serbian nationalist the oppurtunity to shoot franz ferdinand.

I have to agree, I don't see how the bolded statement makes sense at all.  I happened to be born in the USA, Saudi Arabia happens to sit on a shitload of oil, etc. 

I think you, mrstickball, are really taking offense to the idea that a man may be buoyed up or denied opportunity due to the uncaring whimsy of pure happenstance/circumstance.  Sure, what I DO with what I have and what life throws at me is important too, but the opposite is also true.



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Tyrannical on 25 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:

 

again you miss the point, many people are failed by the education system, i.e they have a learning difficulty and didnt get the extra help they needed (learning difficulties again are genetic) is it really fair to slam them for not being able to do better?

im sorry, but what job is so hard you need 100k+ in order to be motivated to do it?

 

Doesn't equating learning difficulty to genetics implies intelligence is also geneticly related?

The next step donwn that slippery slope is racism; some races are geneticly smarter then others. Is that rreally where you want to go?



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

SciFiBoy on 25 March 2009
Tyrannical said:
SciFiBoy said:

 

again you miss the point, many people are failed by the education system, i.e they have a learning difficulty and didnt get the extra help they needed (learning difficulties again are genetic) is it really fair to slam them for not being able to do better?

im sorry, but what job is so hard you need 100k+ in order to be motivated to do it?

 

Doesn't equating learning difficulty to genetics implies intelligence is also geneticly related?

The next step donwn that slippery slope is racism; some races are geneticly smarter then others. Is that rreally where you want to go?

wtf? you do know science has shown links between learning difficulties and genes

Intelligence is both isnt it? humans may have different capacaties for learning and learn in different ways but they may not ever reach that capacity or use the learning style that best suits them, i dont think race comes into it, at all, i dont know why you think it would, if youre implying that somehow Science is racist, then i really dont know where youre coming from as i have seen no such evidence

 



Tyrannical on 25 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:
Tyrannical said:

 

Doesn't equating learning difficulty to genetics implies intelligence is also geneticly related?

The next step donwn that slippery slope is racism; some races are geneticly smarter then others. Is that rreally where you want to go?

wtf? you do know science has shown links between learning difficulties and genes

Intelligence is both isnt it? humans may have different capacaties for learning and learn in different ways but they may not ever reach that capacity or use the learning style that best suits them, i dont think race comes into it, at all, i dont know why you think it would, if youre implying that somehow Science is racist, then i really dont know where youre coming from as i have seen no such evidence

 

 

It was starting to sound a bit like eugenics since you say learning difficulties and intelligence are genetic.

Eugenics is a "the study of, or belief in, the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, esp. by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits.

Planned Parenthood was started as to urge the legalization of contraception for the lower classes.

 

What are you liberals up to?



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

SciFiBoy on 25 March 2009
Tyrannical said:
SciFiBoy said:
Tyrannical said:

 

Doesn't equating learning difficulty to genetics implies intelligence is also geneticly related?

The next step donwn that slippery slope is racism; some races are geneticly smarter then others. Is that rreally where you want to go?

wtf? you do know science has shown links between learning difficulties and genes

Intelligence is both isnt it? humans may have different capacaties for learning and learn in different ways but they may not ever reach that capacity or use the learning style that best suits them, i dont think race comes into it, at all, i dont know why you think it would, if youre implying that somehow Science is racist, then i really dont know where youre coming from as i have seen no such evidence

 

 

It was starting to sound a bit like eugenics since you say learning difficulties and intelligence are genetic.

Eugenics is a "the study of, or belief in, the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, esp. by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits.

Planned Parenthood was started as to urge the legalization of contraception for the lower classes.

 

What are you liberals up to?

 

lmfao, wow you really are desperate, you got eugenics from a liberal talking about science, thats epic, im 100% anti-Eugenics so you know, lol, im not up to that sort of thing, Star Trek warned me off it, lol, i accept that some people are born with disablilites or difficultys, i wouldnt deny them life because of that though, not at all, with help and medical science, we can help the less able to live healthy happy lives



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Tyrannical on 25 March 2009

I thought Khan turned out rather well. He was just misunderstood.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

appolose on 25 March 2009

Woah, epic thread!

Sadly, I have not much to add except concurrence with mrstickball and mafoo.



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TheRealMafoo on 25 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

lol, so your ok with the owner making 500 million, just not happy with paying the worker 200k.

Funny.

That's a good one to go to bed on. It's 1:40am here.

 

no, i dont think that any job is worth over 100k a year

 

You do realize all this would do, is hurt the poor. If you remove the rich, who pays the taxes? It's not like the bills go away.

To answer Final-Fan about what someone would do with $27,000 a day? Pay $10,000 a day in taxes is what he would do. If you stopped that income, the expense to government does not really drop. Someone else needs to start paying it.

 



mesoteto on 25 March 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

shortly after the US was founded you had a civil war over the treatment of slaves, your ideas would treat the working class as slaves, perhaps you like that idea? are you some sort of wealthy man who wants to own 5 or 6 slaves?

 

 

No, I a man who worked as a buss boy when I was 18, sometimes living off of nothing more then 20 dollars a month for food.

I now live a very good lifestyle (porsche 911 convertible, 2300 sqft home on 14 acres, boat, etc..), all because I applied myself, worked my way through school, and worked harder then the next guy at every job I have had. I still work 50 hours a week (10 on my own time).

I never took anything from anyone, including government assistance.

 

most people on minimum wage work 37-50 hours a week, so no you didnt/dont work harder than most people, lots of people do well at school, not all get well paid jobs, some want jobs that dont pay well like nursing, so no you are not superior than the rest of us, you just think you are cause your paid more now

 

If I thought some people were superior to others, I would be a democrat (as some people need help, while others don't). I feel anyone who applies themselves can be where I am today.

My political views are because I feel I am not superior.

And in my field, where I work, people work 35-40 hours a week (software developer). if they worked 50, I would work 60.

The only real trick to success, is working harder/smarter then the next guy. We have 6 developers in our shop. If we went down to 1, it would be me. I work very hard to make sure I am the last one they want to let go. It insures I will always have work.

I am no better then the other 5, I just work harder at it. When did hard work go out of fashion?

when people started looking for handouts calling them "rights" and not working to earn them

the only people that have a right to something are those that have earned them

 

dont get me wrong some things are easier to earn then others like freedom, you just have to be born to earn that one

 

but health care is not a right, howver you should never stand by while someone else sufferes and if you can you shuodl give a helping hand



 

mesoteto on 25 March 2009

this is what happens when you call health care a "right" and make it something that other people have to hand out

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=65227&page=1