Zucas said: But other than that it's just another example of a grown man crying which is quite funny and pathetic. However, I must question the negativity of male gamers towards little kids and women gamers. Are they second class gamers and plagues to have as console and handheld owners? This whole elitist thing tied with the "new age" hardcore gamers is nonetheless disturbing.

 

50 or so years from now, history teachers will be remniscing the times when black people had to sit at the end of the bus, had special restaurants, etc. After that, they will tell schoolchilderen of that time 50 years ago where women, young childeren, an grandpa where not considered gamers. And they will laugh at both the oppressing "upper class".

More hopefully, nobody will be considered gamers, just as nobody is considered a "TV watcher".

Your saying my tone was condescending?

Just looking for laughs here guy, but sure media is against us having knowledge or holding any other position of contestable prowess so they must align our reality to match their fiction. Personally I couldn't care about the gaming media short of when I need to laugh, that's probably why I was laughing while I was typing the entire sentence after "but sure."

I'm not saying your setting anything, just that your pointing fingers, that's probably worse than any other alternative short of hitting a contextual self-destruct button. Gaming went down hill for this gentle man, I'm not saying that because of the content of his rant but because he is ranting, on some he or someone believes this can make a difference.

Then you come out and say:
"It's obvious this dev has some issues with Nintendo..."

Which is fine, but doesn't support:
"But other than that it's just another example of a grown man crying which is quite funny and pathetic. However, I must question the negativity of male gamers towards little kids and women gamers."

You may not have created those categories of people but you did acknowledge them which is the same thing, "language is rule governed and society makes these rules."

To conclude: You used to have in your Sig that batman thing where the joker slammed that guys head into an object. Why so serious?

In the end I don't think that developer could care less about what he sais, he just wants his game to sell so he can keep his job.

I haven't typed this much on VGC in a while... hope I made sense.

WereKitten said: @AkiraGr Oh, come on... you're just saying the same non sequitur over and over. The Nintendo seal of quality? Really? Nobody is intimidated by Nintendo's quality per se. It's not like the handful of great first party games Nintendo releases each generation can totally change its market. And it's not like all first or second party games are actually incredibly great. Do you really think that many developers hold Mario Kart Wii or Mario and Sonic Olympics in great esteem? Third party developers are scared that their games won't sell if they don't feature Mario or Link. Take SSBB and reskin it with anonymous weird characters nobody knows. Do you really think it would sell as much as it does? Or once again: look at the sales of Okami, that is also less "fluffy kiddy" than Zelda. As to the HD consoles investments, do you really think that producers are ready to lose money out of pride to not admit they should also develop for the Wii? There are good reasons to develop for the 360 / PS3 /PC such as the fact that with a 20-30% more your product can be deployed on all three platforms granting a much bigger target demographic, whereas the Wii requires ad-hoc investments unless the whole product is gimped.

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=7480

For the sake of arguement this game is moving consoles and it did change the console market. Are you serious tell me one person that doesn't like Mario Kart Wii or Super Smash Brawl on his/her Wii? Mario Kart Wii is a bridge title for the current demographics that why it has so much success and the best online support on the Wii. Brawl is the most successful fighting game out there and you say we cannot take that in count because it has Mario in it? What king of logic is that? So Halo Wars has the halo logo on it so everything with halo sales, if we remove the halo from the Halo Wars and replace it with something new this game won't sell as well does that make it a less good game for RTS genre? Your arguement is full of holes and you logic is irregular and biased and the best of it is that you are talking about games that you never played.

The HD console investement was so huge by the 3rd party publishers that saw the Wii as the underdog of this generation it's not about pride it's about this investments return some revenues for them and guess what they DIDN'T. After 2 years of HD flops some of the 3rd party puplishers are starting to look the Wii as the top platform of this generation and they start bringing exclusive content for it like EA Smash Court Tennis, Dead Space Extraction,Boom Blox Party, Sega with MadWorld, House of The Dead:OverKill, Sonic and the Black Knight, Marvelous with Muramasa, No More Heroes 2 Desparate Struggle, Harvest moon:Frontier, Arc Rise Fantasia, Capcom with the most mainstream Japanese franchise like Monster Hunter G and Monster Hunter Tri, SquareEnix EXCLUSIVE Dragon Quest X. So only big name studios that have exclusive partnership with Microsoft like bethesta,bioware,Rockstar and publishers like Take 2 still remain strong about serious HD development. By the looks of it Wii has more steam for the core gamer this year than any of the 2 HD counterparts and the majority it's coming from 3rd party not to mention big games from Nintendo.

Ad hog investements? The Wii doesn't need ports from the HD consoles it needs original games something that western developers can produce because of this narrow mind stupid logic about beef up technology that cannot use to make a good gameplay experience rather prefer a good looking one! Not to mention the publishers that ingore the core demographic on the wii hoping for them to immigrate on a HD console so they can save them the trouble to invest for a good AAA game for the Wii.

I rest my case.

 

@AkiraGr
A suggestion since you rest your case: don't give up your current job to become a lawyer ;)

- Mario Kart Wii and SSBB

The point was not if they make money or if they are successful. They are. The point was why are they so successful, and if a third party developer can do the same with their own games. Your previous post was gushing with syrup about the untouchable level of quality of all things Nintendo.

Guess what? No, I don't like those two games. Yes, I own a Wii and yes, I played them. And no, I never bought them. And I don't think they're games of great, unreachable quality. MK:Wii is an average game, SSBB is a good game. Kart is family fun, heavily advertised with the plastic wheel and has Mario. If a third party produced a better kart game with no Nintendo characters in it and not the same million of dollars spent over the years to advertise it it would not sell a tiny fraction of what MK:Wii does. Same with a fighting game with identical mechanics as SSBB but no roster of famous chars. That's a problem for a third paryy developer.

- HD consoles and investments and third party devs

So the developers of shining commercial successes such as Haze or the owners of fresh, untapped IPs like Mortal Kombat went under during the worst economic downturn of the last 50 years, and big publishers like EA don't want to leave the Wii market unmilked. Wow, that certainly proves that developing core games for the Wii is a better investment than doing the same on PC/PS3/360, whatever the size of your studio and whatever the kind of game you want to make.

Seriously: the best investment money-wise on the Wii for a smaller studio is to produce shovelware.

The risks of a bigger investment by a small-average third party don't seem up to this point to have met shining successes on the Wii.

And can you really say with a straight face that the Wii is going to get better third parties than the other consoles this year? Let me see the last headlines about third party titles on, say, GT: Max Payne 3, Need for Speed: SHIFT, Godfather II, Riddick Dark Ahena, Red Faction Guerrilla, Red Alert 3...

I very much hope I'll get some good third party games for my Wii this year, but don't delude yourself: until they are here the PR stunts of EA or Capcom's half assed efforts or at best direct ports from GC and PS2 won't cut it for me.

- Wii ports

So you're saying that you don't want multiplatform titles on the Wii? Well, you have an original position since every time a new title is announced on the PC/PS3/360 a chorus of whining "where is the Wii version, why do devs hate us" mounts from the ether.

- "teh gameplay"

And can we stop the tiring about "narrow mind stupid logic about beef up technology"? Last generation I didn't own a PS2 nor a GC and I was only a PC gamer, but I read around. And the gaming sites were full of Nintendo fans going on about how much better RE4 or Soul Calibur 2 looked on the GC than on the PS2, and how technologically advanced the GC was.

Fallout 3 or Halo 3 are examples of games of great critical acclaim and great sales, none of which is a graphical powerhouse. Both can put up a good picture and have good touches but they rely on the whole package rather than on beefed up technology. Their success though is 100% due to their gameplay, as is the success of CoD4 or Fable 2 or Little Big Planet

Meanwhile the hyping goes on about The Conduit, a game that was born as an engine showcase, belongs to the least inventive genre on the market today and has still to prove it can deliver any gameplay at all. Because all we get is videos showing reflections and haze distortions, or restyling of the rendered main character.

So can we stop the "HD graphics vs good gameplay" nonsense?

 

 

I despise the wii but I don't think I would make comments like that.

It does have some good games despite the plethora of shovelware on the console...at least in my opinion.
Nintendo have opened up a new market, and made videogames enjoyable to many new people.
Also, Nintendo have made a great innovation with the wii remote and soon to be released wii motion plus peripheral.
And like I said before, they are catering to a largely new userbase and hopefully those people are getting enjoyment out of the console.

Though, I hardly think he is the only game developer that is hostile/bitter towards the wii. Personally, there's nothing that interests me on the console but that's just me and I'm sure plenty of people love their wii.

...Zelda is fluffy kiddy!?

...More so than Okami!?

^Actually neither Zelda:TP nor Okami are "fluffy kiddy" in my opinion, it was AkiraGr that thus explained the lack of wide-public success of Okami. I could have understood if he said that people might have been turned off by its unique art style...

Okami's a very unfortunate game. Wonderful game. Just had the dual problem of being entirely about a wolf (yes, I think that was to its detriment, which is hella ironic next to TP) and launching in the same year as the Wii and PS3.

It just got lost in the shuffle.

@ werekitten

Ok i gave you an example about why Mario Kart sells as well as SSBB in the "face" of Halo Wars. They are games with an established franchise as well as unique in each genre they represent(not Halo wars). Quality is the most importan thing is that what made them SUCCESSFUL in the first place and set a bar.

Mario didn't became famous for his Red M hat or the blue overalls, it was because his main games were AWESOME and reeked of quality in each generation with each genre he was appeared:Super Mario Kart(SNES) genre definer, Mario Party(N64) genre definer. All of nintendo core franchises never score below 80 on metacritics all of them sold extremelly well. So your point of nintendo games selling only on brand loyalty is out of the window. But i agree with you that the personal taste is different on every gamer but the majority of wii owners by the looks of the success of Mario Kart Wii and SSBB and their enormous legs are also great quality titles. Even SSBB is strong on competitive fighting community with the majority of the partsipants of Evolution Fighting Tournaments comes for this particular title.

Because you don't like Mario Kart and SSBB doesn't make your personal opinion as a solid fact about the quality of this titles. Taste is personal in each gamer but the majority of buyers of this particular titles think different than you.

So the flops on HD consoles are because on the global economical crisis!?! In an industry that saw grouth of 25% only in Febuary of this year in the storm of the economic crisis. Yes i can see you have a valid point there......(sarcasm)

The technology comment i made was not to bash it but to make a point about Wanat fixation to dish the Wii because it lacks the horsepower of the HD console and made a stupid runt about Chronicles of Ridick that can not come out on the GameCube......I am a graphic whore myself but i judge each console by their strength and weaknesses.

I don't care for ports because the developers that made them on the Wii never tried to exploit the systems true power and wanted for a quick cash in to make revenues on the huge install base of the ignorant "non gamers". Resident Evil 4 only prove this wrong and it wasn't a HD one game to begin with. Original games that exploit the technology of the system and the Wii remote.

Because you have a Wii doesn't give you the right to state as facts your personal opinions. I respect it but the majority proves you wrong by true numbers of hardware install base the Wii console have at this point as well as software sales.

So did that help GameCube at any level, yes the above titles had better graphics but did they played better on GameCube? No they were the same games. That makes my point even stronger. Gamers don't care how the game looks as it is super fun to play. The Wii is inferior in pure numbers but it is a lot more fun than his HD rivals and that what is driving the Wii sales. So the reallity is HD graphics< Gameplay.

I cannot judge the Conduit because i haven't played it.