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Forums - General - Economy rescue: Adding up the dollars

Avinash_Tyagi on 22 March 2009

nope

Their effective tax rates have dropped

 

You're mistaking total revenue for revenue earned from top tax earners, you're going by this graph:

 

 

This just means that lower brackets are shouldering more burden then they did in the past, total revenue is earned from everyone, not just the top earners, and in the past the top earners covered more of the burden, now its fallling more heavily on lower brackets as the effective tax rates of the rich have fallen

 

 



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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TheRealMafoo on 22 March 2009

convenient that you left out the one chart that could discredit what I was saying.

in 1980, the top 1% paid 19% of all taxes collected.
in 1990, the top 1% paid 25% of all taxes collected.
in 2005, the top 1% pain 40% of all taxes collected. (the 2% to 5% paid 20%).

So with the top 5% paying 60% of our taxes, how are they not paying there share?



akuma587 on 22 March 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
convenient that you left out the one chart that could discredit what I was saying.

in 1980, the top 1% paid 19% of all taxes collected.
in 1990, the top 1% paid 25% of all taxes collected.
in 2005, the top 1% pain 40% of all taxes collected. (the 2% to 5% paid 20%).

So with the top 5% paying 60% of our taxes, how are they not paying there share?

You know your numbers mean nothing unless you attach a source to them right?

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

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Avinash_Tyagi on 22 March 2009

You're missing that their effective tax rates are falling, this means that the rich have a lot of offsets in their taxes



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

TheRealMafoo on 22 March 2009
akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
convenient that you left out the one chart that could discredit what I was saying.

in 1980, the top 1% paid 19% of all taxes collected.
in 1990, the top 1% paid 25% of all taxes collected.
in 2005, the top 1% pain 40% of all taxes collected. (the 2% to 5% paid 20%).

So with the top 5% paying 60% of our taxes, how are they not paying there share?

You know your numbers mean nothing unless you attach a source to them right?

 

 

No, it just means you don't believe them.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2008/04/the_rich_and_their_taxes.html

 



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TheRealMafoo on 22 March 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
You're missing that their effective tax rates are falling, this means that the rich have a lot of offsets in their taxes

 

I am not missing it, I just don't care about it.

The purpose of taxing the people, is to collect funds to run the country. The rich had been paying more of the money to run the country year after year. It's been going up each year, not down.

You say they are not paying there share, but each year they pay more of there share.

What would you have them pay? All of it?



Avinash_Tyagi on 22 March 2009

Your argument however is blown out of the water by the one thing you don't care about, if their effective tax rates are falling then they aren't paying their share even if you are trying to argue that their percentage of total taxes collected is rising, see total taxes aren't adjusted for inflation and growth rates in income, this indicates an increasing income gap in the US, and the rich getting richer not that they are paying a fair share, the reason they are paying so much of the amount collected is because wealth is so concentrated in the US, but that doesn;t mean that they are paying a fair share as their effective rates are falling.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

TheRealMafoo on 22 March 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Your argument however is blown out of the water by the one thing you don't care about, if their effective tax rates are falling then they aren't paying their share even if you are trying to argue that their percentage of total taxes collected is rising, see total taxes aren't adjusted for inflation and growth rates in income, this indicates an increasing income gap in the US, and the rich getting richer not that they are paying a fair share, the reason they are paying so much of the amount collected is because wealth is so concentrated in the US, but that doesn;t mean that they are paying a fair share as their effective rates are falling.

 

Not sure I get your logic. To what end are you trying to get to? You want the rich to pay more out of each dollar they earn, even if it means the poor and middle class pay more taxes?

I don't get that.



Avinash_Tyagi on 22 March 2009

No, never said that, I said I want the rich to pay their fair share, with wealth so concentrated in their hands, they should be paying more than the 30 odd percent they are paying, the fact that their effective tax rates are dropping shows that they aren't paying enough



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

TheRealMafoo on 22 March 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
No, never said that, I said I want the rich to pay their fair share, with wealth so concentrated in their hands, they should be paying more than the 30 odd percent they are paying, the fact that their effective tax rates are dropping shows that they aren't paying enough

 


But if you raise there tax rate (say, make it 50%), the GDP goes down, the total dollars collected from government goes down, thus taxes on all need to go up. (or the government just takes less dollars).

Also, being you care about "fair", I take it your for a flat tax? Say, 30% across the board. Right now, over 90% of all taxes are paid by the top 50%. The poor pay almost nothing.

With a "fair" tax, the poor pay more. I assume you're for that, if fair is what your after.

Unless you just hate the rich.