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Forums - General - Obama might be the dumbest president we have ever had.

TheRealMafoo said:
Now in that video, he is concerned about what printing money out of thin air does to our economy, and that the way we are going, the Feds will just print more... Look at how much the feds have printed

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/AMBNS

Soon, that's going to screw us all. Why would we want to keep doing this?

Very disturbing, but it looks like it peaked before Obama was in and has since scaled back.  We'll see what happens later. 



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How about this one:

 



Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Now in that video, he is concerned about what printing money out of thin air does to our economy, and that the way we are going, the Feds will just print more... Look at how much the feds have printed

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/AMBNS

Soon, that's going to screw us all. Why would we want to keep doing this?

Very disturbing, but it looks like it peaked before Obama was in and has since scaled back.  We'll see what happens later. 

 

It has not gone down, just grew at a slower rate. Look at it in bar graph, should show a better picture.

This is the problem with the current spending. If you look at that graph through the great depression, we didn't print more money to fix the problem, we just collected more taxes and spent it.

There are no more dollars to collect with taxes (not at the level they want to spend), so the only way to spend like we did in the past, is to dilute the money. This is never a good way to get yourself out of a money problem.

The worst of this is yet to come, and it's not from the housing bubble. It's from what the US Government has been doing over the last 6-8 months.

It's the stupid shit Bush did, and the stupid shit Obama is doing. Trying to fix the problem the way they are doing it, is making the problem worse.



When something is too big to fail. Only a revolution would fix it.

Corruption runs too deep.



TheRealMafoo said:
Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
Mafoo needs a tin foil hat.

Interestingly enough, economists have really been scrambling recently to figure out if they know anything at all about the economy. Economic crises are usually great for moving economic theory forward. It had gotten pretty stagnant. Everyone was buying into the same economic theories until the bottom fell out. Economists at first had no idea why things had even gone wrong.

Too much activism by the Fed.
Too much reliance on the market as a rational decision maker.
Too little taxation during good economic years (keeps the bubbles from getting too big and helps the national debt).
Too little regulation and oversight of most of the economy, particularly the financial sector.
Too much overextension of credit (highly related to point #1).
Have you never listened to Ron Paul? Everything he said would happen, happened. He is not the only one who predicted this YEARS before it happened.
1.  Source?
2.  You know what they say about broken clocks...
This is before the bailouts, before Fanny and Freddy.
That was completely off topic.  It's a seven minute rant about inflation, with a couple throwaway remarks about "the housing bubble" and "the NASDAQ bubble" only as a comparison to say that "the dollar bubble" (which according to him was about to burst) would be 10x worse.  He also says we need LESS regulation on the market when there AFAIK is a general consensus that deregulation resulted in the securitization scheme that caused the housing market to collapse. 

In short, I regard that as a complete failure to prove your assertion.
So the part where he said Soon Freddy, Fanny, and the banks are going to come to congress, ask for money, and the Feds are just going to print it up and give it to them means nothing to you?

That the people who are going to get the money first when it has purchasing power is Banks, Wall-street, but when that money enters circulation, inflation is going to hit, and tax everyone, the poor the most, didn't ring a bell at all? (inflation is on the rise, and won't stop for some time)

How about the part where soon the US is going to try to centrally regulate the economy, and that it's not going to work?

I guess you and I watched a different video.

(1) He said: 
...
Because at the rate we're going, we resort daily on inflating the money supply:  no matter who gets into trouble, the federal reserve opens up the line of credit, the banks come, freddie mac, fannie mae come, and also the congress goes to the fed, we run up the deficits -- all the pressure is put on the dollar. 

And in the last 35 years or so, since the breakdown of (brettin woods??) agreement, we have had a buildup of a dollar bubble.  We've heard about the housing bubble, and the NASDAQ bubble, and the various bubbles that burst and then we go through a period of suffering.  But what we're witnessing now is the beginning of the bursting of the dollar bubble, where there's loss of confidence.  We can't get away with continuing to just create new money. 
...

(my own transcription)

To argue after the fact that he was referring to a bailout is ... not something that I will believe without more an example of something more specific.  Greenspan's Fed made a habit of lowering interest rates everytime clouds covered up the sun, let alone if there was rain.  What makes you so sure he wasn't referring to this or some other thing? 

(2) I understood that to be referring to the general "use it or lose it" phenomenon of money in an inflating environment.  Spending, investing, etc. and the only ones that really lose are those who put it in a mattress or otherwise earn a return smaller than inflation on their money.  This would not be specifically referring to 'banks get the money, then businesses, and so on until the poor are left with inflated dregs'. 

(3) Ron Paul has, unless I am greatly mistaken, been on about encroaching govenment power for DECADES.  Does that make him right when it actually happens?  Yes.  Should I be amazed at his wisdom?  No. 

P.S.  Thanks for telling me where to find the tiny, tiny relevant parts in the seven minute speech. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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TheRealMafoo said:
Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Now in that video, he is concerned about what printing money out of thin air does to our economy, and that the way we are going, the Feds will just print more... Look at how much the feds have printed

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/AMBNS

Soon, that's going to screw us all. Why would we want to keep doing this?

Very disturbing, but it looks like it peaked before Obama was in and has since scaled back.  We'll see what happens later. 

It has not gone down, just grew at a slower rate. Look at it in bar graph, should show a better picture.

This is the problem with the current spending. If you look at that graph through the great depression, we didn't print more money to fix the problem, we just collected more taxes and spent it.

There are no more dollars to collect with taxes (not at the level they want to spend), so the only way to spend like we did in the past, is to dilute the money. This is never a good way to get yourself out of a money problem.

The worst of this is yet to come, and it's not from the housing bubble. It's from what the US Government has been doing over the last 6-8 months.

It's the stupid shit Bush did, and the stupid shit Obama is doing. Trying to fix the problem the way they are doing it, is making the problem worse.

I think the bar graph has coarser intervals; in the line graph it shows it going down.  Also see the "Latest Observations".  (1136, 1482, 1693, 1735, 1580.)  So as soon as Obama was in office it went down. 

And if they can get people to buy treasury bonds then it's not just printing money is it? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Tyrannical said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Incorrect
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119205925519455321.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news
Put your racism/class warfare away, it has no place in this discussion
Blah, blah, article dated Oct 2007 before the bottom fell out.

OF THE STOCK MARKET GENIUS (correct me if I'm wrong about what you meant)

Are you suggesting that the facts stated in that article about who had subprime mortgages were no longer true later on? 

 

 The facts in the article are obviously suspect, as it came out about a year before the bottom fell out. If the article was 100% correct, then the failure would not have been a surprise.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

TheRealMafoo said:
Pristine20 said:
You may not like his policies but anyone who thinks Obama is "dumb" is probably worse than n"dumb" themselves.

 

What's his IQ? How about his grades in collage?

Oh yea, we don't know. He won't release that information.

we know he went to Occidental, but they won't talk about him.  wonder why.

 

 



Tyrannical said:
Final-Fan said:
Tyrannical said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Incorrect
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119205925519455321.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news
Put your racism/class warfare away, it has no place in this discussion
Blah, blah, article dated Oct 2007 before the bottom fell out.
OF THE STOCK MARKET GENIUS (correct me if I'm wrong about what you meant)

Are you suggesting that the facts stated in that article about who had subprime mortgages were no longer true later on?
The facts in the article are obviously suspect, as it came out about a year before the bottom fell out. If the article was 100% correct, then the failure would not have been a surprise.

Uh, that doesn't ... make sense.  Whether right or wrong, if people believed it then according to your logic they would not have been surprised. 

Anyway, the reason is that people didn't wake up one day and "OMG SKY IS FALLING".  It was a relatively gradual process of things getting worse and worse.  At that point it looks at a glance like people knew that the subprime mortgages were a big problem -- perhaps they even recognized that the housing market was collapsing -- but didn't realize that would cause the financial world to implode. 

Bottom line is that your response is simple denial.  Can't you do any better?  If the WSJ was as wrong as you think, surely someone would have said so at the time. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:

Uh, that doesn't ... make sense.  Whether right or wrong, if people believed it then according to your logic they would not have been surprised. 

Anyway, the reason is that people didn't wake up one day and "OMG SKY IS FALLING".  It was a relatively gradual process of things getting worse and worse.  At that point it looks at a glance like people knew that the subprime mortgages were a big problem -- perhaps they even recognized that the housing market was collapsing -- but didn't realize that would cause the financial world to implode. 

Bottom line is that your response is simple denial.  Can't you do any better?  If the WSJ was as wrong as you think, surely someone would have said so at the time. 

 

 I don't know what you find so difficult to comprehend. You have this article from 2007 trying to explain a collapse that didn't even happen until a year later.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire