Sardauk said: Bluewing said: http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=Wii&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=200 This is proof that the Ps3 has sold more than the Xbox 360 in less time!   Who are you Mr first post ? I don't see proof, I see a chart with no explanation...

 

I'm just a lurker :P

 

That's a chart that shows "Hardware Sales From Launch"

So it clearly shows that the Ps3 sold more it's first 122 weeks than Xbox 360 sold it's first 122 weeks.

This shows it more clear:

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=X360&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=&reg3=All&weeks=122

Bluewing said: Sardauk said: Bluewing said: http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=Wii&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=200 This is proof that the Ps3 has sold more than the Xbox 360 in less time!   Who are you Mr first post ? I don't see proof, I see a chart with no explanation...   I'm just a lurker :P   That's a chart that shows "Hardware Sales From Launch" So it clearly shows that the Ps3 sold more it's first 122 weeks than Xbox 360 sold it's first 122 weeks. This shows it more clear: http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=X360&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=&reg3=All&weeks=122

And ?

True performances are performances that last.

Some facts are true but i dont like the fact that you leave out most of the ps3's features in fact number 10, it doesnt just have wifi and 2 usb ports, it still has blu-ray, it still has a big hard disc, it still has free online. also how many weak ports have there been? 1, 2? dont forget that bioshock looked better on the PS3 than on the 360. Vlave is known for laziness, if they put some effort into making games or porting them then they would have made more profit on portal on ps3. Oh so i suppose the 360 has more killer apps, really? like what? lets see, GeoW 1 & 2, Halo 3 and Mass Effect, WOW! oh and its not too late, this generation has another 3-4 years yet. Appart from these biased facts listed above i think that the rest is true.

oh and no its not failing

Soul_tech10 said: oh and no its not failing

 

For what the Playstation brand is (was) supposed to be, I believe it does...

Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: ps3 will be a fail to sony if sony has to pull it off much sooner than its 10 year plan... with 3 years in us market and 2 in ww market is not much to jump right now to the end... sony is losing money... and user base... but if you think a little bit... xbox360 is ahead but not much even been much cheaper... dont think m$ is failing for that too... its just the limitation of its product... wii sell alot more... but wii owners are young people who in majority dont have $ independence and dont get all the games it wants as for ps3 owners the majority is much older and has $ independence as ps3 users have more games per console then wii owners ... that sooner or latter will make a difference ... most of wii owners would like to have a ps3 but daddy say not to a such expensive console... we have to see that ps3 its target to a smaller universe of possible users ... its not supposed to out sell wii or xbox360 in this early years... Just my opinion... ps3 is not failing for me... its great ... its what i expect and its delivering every thing i want... not many people want what i want and can get what i have but this is ps3 way... not to every one... its for who take the games serious... IMHO! So... losing marketshare... losing the company more money then the PS2 made isn't a failure so long as they support the product for 10 years? The rest ... You just seem to be babling and seem to be engaging in a bit of cognitive dissonance. Whether or not the PS3 is failing to you is largely irrelevent.  The PS3 is a product, designed to make it's parent company money.  That's the method in which it should be judged on whether it was a success or not.   ok you have your point... but will see if it was a failure in the end or in the beginning??? until now it is normal to been bad as it was very expensive to develop such a machine and all... but i think it will give its fruits... when every company spends allot of money developing a product and its intended to be on the market for at least 10 years it is premature to make a judgement with just 3 years info. its was a big investment... but until the end its just babling saying that failed. It lost more money then the PS2 made.  The PS2 has lasted 9 years. So... for the PS3 to succeed.  Not only does it need to reverse trends... but it needs to suddenly become more popular and  succesful then the PS2... the most succesful console ever. This would be like argueing that it's too early to call Darko Millic a failure because he could still prove to be better then Dwayne Wade... since he's still playing in the NBA. While theoretically possible the chances of it happening are so remote that there is plenty of reason to call it early.

you say... "It lost more money then the PS2 made.  The PS2 has lasted 9 years."  where can i see what makes you say this... not saying that is not true but cant find that info anywhere...

by the way... i am European so i dont understand nothing of your basketball league...you will to go with more universal examples as you can understand nothing about european soccer to...

sergiodaly said: Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: ps3 will be a fail to sony if sony has to pull it off much sooner than its 10 year plan... with 3 years in us market and 2 in ww market is not much to jump right now to the end... sony is losing money... and user base... but if you think a little bit... xbox360 is ahead but not much even been much cheaper... dont think m$ is failing for that too... its just the limitation of its product... wii sell alot more... but wii owners are young people who in majority dont have $ independence and dont get all the games it wants as for ps3 owners the majority is much older and has $ independence as ps3 users have more games per console then wii owners ... that sooner or latter will make a difference ... most of wii owners would like to have a ps3 but daddy say not to a such expensive console... we have to see that ps3 its target to a smaller universe of possible users ... its not supposed to out sell wii or xbox360 in this early years... Just my opinion... ps3 is not failing for me... its great ... its what i expect and its delivering every thing i want... not many people want what i want and can get what i have but this is ps3 way... not to every one... its for who take the games serious... IMHO! So... losing marketshare... losing the company more money then the PS2 made isn't a failure so long as they support the product for 10 years? The rest ... You just seem to be babling and seem to be engaging in a bit of cognitive dissonance. Whether or not the PS3 is failing to you is largely irrelevent.  The PS3 is a product, designed to make it's parent company money.  That's the method in which it should be judged on whether it was a success or not.   ok you have your point... but will see if it was a failure in the end or in the beginning??? until now it is normal to been bad as it was very expensive to develop such a machine and all... but i think it will give its fruits... when every company spends allot of money developing a product and its intended to be on the market for at least 10 years it is premature to make a judgement with just 3 years info. its was a big investment... but until the end its just babling saying that failed. It lost more money then the PS2 made.  The PS2 has lasted 9 years. So... for the PS3 to succeed.  Not only does it need to reverse trends... but it needs to suddenly become more popular and  succesful then the PS2... the most succesful console ever. This would be like argueing that it's too early to call Darko Millic a failure because he could still prove to be better then Dwayne Wade... since he's still playing in the NBA. While theoretically possible the chances of it happening are so remote that there is plenty of reason to call it early.   you say... "It lost more money then the PS2 made.  The PS2 has lasted 9 years."  where can i see what makes you say this... not saying that is not true but cant find that info anywhere... by the way... i am European so i dont understand nothing of your basketball league...you will to go with more universal examples as you can understand nothing about european soccer to...

Look up Sony's financial reports.  Since the PS3 has been launched the losses have been worse then the profits all during the PS2 era. 

These numbers are accurate up to about last April.  Sony has lost more since then... and PS2 started in 2000.  With support from PS1 which was another 9-10 year system.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284797&page=4

 

Sony Nintendo Microsoft Industry
1998 1,253,000,000 809,000,000 2,062,000,000
1999 1,431,000,000 817,000,000 2,248,000,000
2000 900,000,000 519,000,000 1,419,000,000
2001 -488,000,000 866,000,000 378,000,000
2002 731,000,000 939,000,000 -880,000,000 790,000,000
2003 1,076,000,000 642,000,000 -1,365,000,000 353,000,000
2004 731,000,000 355,000,000 -1,367,000,000 -281,000,000
2005 440,000,000 846,000,000 -528,000,000 758,000,000
2006 79,000,000 942,000,000 -1,329,000,000 -308,000,000
2007 -1,969,000,000 1,489,000,000 -1,892,000,000 -2,372,000,000
2008 -1,254,000,000 2,480,000,000 532,000,000 1,758,000,000

I still find the arguments here funny.. "The PS3 is failing" "No it's not failing" "yes it is" "no it isn't".

Instead of throwing stupid words back and forth. Lets examine this a little closer. The first step is, explain what you mean by failing. You can look at this in different ways.



The first way is, the PS3 has been able to keep up to PS2 hardware sales, it has been able to keep up with PS1 hardware sales, so it isn't failing.

The second way is, Sony acted like it would be the best thing that will happen to them, and they said it would have "4D graphics" (whatever the hell that means) and that basically it would smoke away the competition, and the money was worth it. But unfortunately, the sales have been lower than they anticipated, the first pricecut didn't increase sales all that much, Sony is losing a LOT of money per sold console, and the games weren't selling even that well. Not even close to the amount of PS2 games sold. Besides from that, they did lose a lot of exclusive games, most of the multi-platform games look and play worse on the PS3 so the higher price tag is just not justifiable for gamers. So from this standpoint, the PS3 has fallen flat on its face and thus failed miserably .

The third thing is Blu-Ray. They promoted the PS3 as the best Blu-Ray player out there. But what they were forgetting is, that people who buy the system only as a Blu-Ray player, will not buy games, and the games is where the PS3 should bring the money in, and if people buy no games, Sony gets no money, so the PS3 fails here too.

The fourth is the game support. Online support was crappy from the start. It has improved now, but that's only to put pressure on Microsoft. They stole a lot of ideas from MS (trophies, way to contact friends etc.) to try and give the same experience to gamers. Their argument is that their online is free. Most people who were fascinated by online play, probably jumped the gun on the X360 first, because that online service was already mature even though you needed to pay a fee, it had quality, and now that the PS3 has caught up a little, most of them are not going to buy a PS3 because they are satisfied with their X360 already. So here, i wouldn't say the PS3 failed, but Sony did fail in delivering a mature and unique online service when it was needed. Look at Home. So hyped, and now everyone things it's worthless.
Besides this, the multi-platform games usually run better on the X360, and therefore most people who do own both consoles, also buy most of their multi platform games on the X360, and this is exactly where Sony wants to get their money in, the games. So the multi-platform games are hurting Sony, and this is also where the PS3 has failed compared to the X360.

To the exclusives, let's take a look at KZ2. That game costed a LOT of money to develop, and yet, the sales were a bit of a let down. It probably won't be able to cover all the costs for making the game in the first place. That's true for a lot of their exclusives unfortunately. It might get some more people to buy a PS3, but that's loss for Sony since every sold PS3 costs Sony money. Sony only hopes they can make it up with more game sales, but they won't unless they make sure developers optimize more for multi-platform games and try to keep the cost for their exclusives as low as possible and the quality as high as possible. This is the fifth, and it's that the hardware is harder to develop for than the X360, and that's something that also bites Sony behind, because more people and time is needed, and that is more costs for Sony if they want to keep the games on the same quality as when they would be developed exclusively for the X360, which means the PS3 fails compared to its competition.



To put it short, on sales, maybe the PS3 isn't failing. On having a fanbase, no it probably isn't failing. But as a system that should bring Sony money and make them richer, it is failing miserably.



And now let's take a look at the X360. The old xbox had a very low fanbase, and low games compared to now. The X360 is already doing a lot better than the original xbox and surpassed it both in hardware sales and in game sales. Maybe it's selling faster or slower than the PS3, and to be honest i don't care which one, but i think it's apparent, that this console is already a success for microsoft. They get money from almost everything around the console, that's games, online, accessories, you name it. The only thing that hurt them was the RROD, but since some people do actually buy a new one after RROD, they did increase their fanbase, they do give a good gaming experience, and they are sure as hell making a lot more money than Sony. Even if the profit might not turn out to be that good this generation, they do have a good basis to go on after this one.

So i think it's safe to conclude, that even if you prefer one console over the other, you think either of them is failing or winning (whatever, your own opinion does not matter to the companies anyway), Microsoft has increased a lot compared to past generation and are making money out of it, while Sony has actually lost a lot and is not doing that well at all. They are either at the same place, or going backwards, in any case, not the way they are supposed to be going. So for these reasons, i say, X360 is a success for MS and PS3 is a failure for Sony.

There we go. This is how you guys should discuss, and not throwing crap at each other.

Kasz216 said: darendt said: Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: ps3 will be a fail to sony if sony has to pull it off much sooner than its 10 year plan... with 3 years in us market and 2 in ww market is not much to jump right now to the end... sony is losing money... and user base... but if you think a little bit... xbox360 is ahead but not much even been much cheaper... dont think m$ is failing for that too... its just the limitation of its product... wii sell alot more... but wii owners are young people who in majority dont have $ independence and dont get all the games it wants as for ps3 owners the majority is much older and has $ independence as ps3 users have more games per console then wii owners ... that sooner or latter will make a difference ... most of wii owners would like to have a ps3 but daddy say not to a such expensive console... we have to see that ps3 its target to a smaller universe of possible users ... its not supposed to out sell wii or xbox360 in this early years... Just my opinion... ps3 is not failing for me... its great ... its what i expect and its delivering every thing i want... not many people want what i want and can get what i have but this is ps3 way... not to every one... its for who take the games serious... IMHO! So... losing marketshare... losing the company more money then the PS2 made isn't a failure so long as they support the product for 10 years? The rest ... You just seem to be babling and seem to be engaging in a bit of cognitive dissonance. Whether or not the PS3 is failing to you is largely irrelevent.  The PS3 is a product, designed to make it's parent company money.  That's the method in which it should be judged on whether it was a success or not.   ok you have your point... but will see if it was a failure in the end or in the beginning??? until now it is normal to been bad as it was very expensive to develop such a machine and all... but i think it will give its fruits... when every company spends allot of money developing a product and its intended to be on the market for at least 10 years it is premature to make a judgement with just 3 years info. its was a big investment... but until the end its just babling saying that failed. It lost more money then the PS2 made.  The PS2 has lasted 9 years. So... for the PS3 to succeed.  Not only does it need to reverse trends... but it needs to suddenly become more popular and  succesful then the PS2... the most succesful console ever. This would be like argueing that it's too early to call Darko Millic a failure because he could still prove to be better then Dwayne Wade... since he's still playing in the NBA. While theoretically possible the chances of it happening are so remote that there is plenty of reason to call it early.     The difference between your analogy and reality is that people dont decide when Darko becomes a hit. On the console front, people do. The fact that the PS3 is selling on par with the 360 right now at twice the price is a testament to its worth. Once the price drops and more can afford it we will see a spike in sales just like the 360 got when it dropped its price. That and the fact the Ps3 has a lot more known and anticipated titles coming up indicates sales will improve not decline. So you expect said spike in sales to make back all that it's lost?  Make back more then the PS2 ever made in it's life? That's just not going to happen.

 

To make up say 8 million, sure, why not? The 360 will be gone before the PS3. Sony consoles always outlast there cometitors. My thoughts on the matter however are that from the day Sony cuts the price by $100 it will take just under 2 years to surpass sales of the 360. Either way though when all is said and done the PS3 will have sold more than the 360.

darendt said: Kasz216 said: darendt said: Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: Kasz216 said: sergiodaly said: ps3 will be a fail to sony if sony has to pull it off much sooner than its 10 year plan... with 3 years in us market and 2 in ww market is not much to jump right now to the end... sony is losing money... and user base... but if you think a little bit... xbox360 is ahead but not much even been much cheaper... dont think m$ is failing for that too... its just the limitation of its product... wii sell alot more... but wii owners are young people who in majority dont have $ independence and dont get all the games it wants as for ps3 owners the majority is much older and has $ independence as ps3 users have more games per console then wii owners ... that sooner or latter will make a difference ... most of wii owners would like to have a ps3 but daddy say not to a such expensive console... we have to see that ps3 its target to a smaller universe of possible users ... its not supposed to out sell wii or xbox360 in this early years... Just my opinion... ps3 is not failing for me... its great ... its what i expect and its delivering every thing i want... not many people want what i want and can get what i have but this is ps3 way... not to every one... its for who take the games serious... IMHO! So... losing marketshare... losing the company more money then the PS2 made isn't a failure so long as they support the product for 10 years? The rest ... You just seem to be babling and seem to be engaging in a bit of cognitive dissonance. Whether or not the PS3 is failing to you is largely irrelevent.  The PS3 is a product, designed to make it's parent company money.  That's the method in which it should be judged on whether it was a success or not.   ok you have your point... but will see if it was a failure in the end or in the beginning??? until now it is normal to been bad as it was very expensive to develop such a machine and all... but i think it will give its fruits... when every company spends allot of money developing a product and its intended to be on the market for at least 10 years it is premature to make a judgement with just 3 years info. its was a big investment... but until the end its just babling saying that failed. It lost more money then the PS2 made.  The PS2 has lasted 9 years. So... for the PS3 to succeed.  Not only does it need to reverse trends... but it needs to suddenly become more popular and  succesful then the PS2... the most succesful console ever. This would be like argueing that it's too early to call Darko Millic a failure because he could still prove to be better then Dwayne Wade... since he's still playing in the NBA. While theoretically possible the chances of it happening are so remote that there is plenty of reason to call it early.     The difference between your analogy and reality is that people dont decide when Darko becomes a hit. On the console front, people do. The fact that the PS3 is selling on par with the 360 right now at twice the price is a testament to its worth. Once the price drops and more can afford it we will see a spike in sales just like the 360 got when it dropped its price. That and the fact the Ps3 has a lot more known and anticipated titles coming up indicates sales will improve not decline. So you expect said spike in sales to make back all that it's lost?  Make back more then the PS2 ever made in it's life? That's just not going to happen.     To make up say 8 million, sure, why not? The 360 will be gone before the PS3. Sony consoles always outlast there cometitors. My thoughts on the matter however are that from the day Sony cuts the price by $100 it will take just under 2 years to surpass sales of the 360. Either way though when all is said and done the PS3 will have sold more than the 360.

not 8 million... over 2-3 billion dollars.  I'm talking profit here. 

Besides selling more the 360 would still be failing in terms of market share as it would be well below PS2's market share because there is a third system that exists... and that system is in first place.