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Forums - General - Socialism and communism

Mafoo conveniently forgotten about tax deductions, ways to get around sales tax (like shopping online), and the fact that not everyone pays all of the income tax they owe.

For a guy who claims to know so much, he sure does miss a lot of details.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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Also, can you find the source? A few Google searches only turn up some lunatic calling inflation a 90% "tax" over 45 years.



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Inflation actually helps people who owe money. It means that they essentially have to pay less real dollars than they did in the past.

The only people that inflation hurts is those with a lot of money. Hyperinflation is a different issue, and that helps no one.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

I think that the current economic situation has many people looking to more socialist policies as the golden path. The current recession is the result of poor legislation and poor oversight by the government. Now, people want the government to take on more responsibilities and acquire more power. I can't help but see a flaw in this logic. The ideal is that the government program will attempt to work in the best interests of the people. However, government agencies tend to be the least efficient and least organized. With people saying that health care is broken in the US, I shudder to think of what will happen if the government takes it over. I expect there to be more money wasted, than saved, overall. Not only that, some of the liability and legal problems that have caused health care rates to go up will shift to the government turning into some sort of cash pinata for litigants.

Taxing the rich always seems like a winner the problem is that it is a prospect with diminishing returns. Most of those that are well off better at reducing their tax profile. Not only that, it encourages them to be more conservative in their spending. Money goes to the government instead of going into the economy.

Have people not seen what a fiasco the bailout has been? At first government just threw money at banks like it was magic fairy dust that would cure all ills, only to find out that the money wasn't used they way they wanted it to be. We're bailing out automakers that make cars people don't want to buy. Shouldn't we be resisting government's meddling with market forces to protect failing business models? Especially when that government lead us to to where we are today by deciding that people who cannot afford homes should be able to buy them?

So, let's list this:
The US Government:
crafted the legislation that lead to this economic collapse
threw "no strings attached" money at banks (at first) in a panic
is bailing out auto manufacturers (again), that seem to run their businesses with the knowledge that the government won't let them fail

And we want have government also:
take over Health care
take in more tax dollars
redistribute wealth

I just can't see how people are comfortable handing government more power given it's track record. People rest alot of their hope on Obama, but he is not going to magically make the government more efficient.



Thank god for the disable signatures option.

The only problem Akuma is that the healthcare plans the whitehouse talks about are only going to add even more levels of confusing needless bueracracy on top.

Also are you denying that the US by far is the leader when it comes to developing medical technologies?



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No, I do think the U.S. develops a lot of great medical technologies. But what do insurance companies have anything to do with that? They shortchange the people who actually provide services and make discoveries all the time.

I am all for going to a single-payer system for efficiency's sake. You don't have to convince me bureaucracy is a problem.

Obama is trying to move us towards a single-payer system, although he is taking it one step at a time. America isn't quite at the point where it will accept a complete governmental takeover of the healthcare system.

Get rid of insurance companies completely if you ask me. They are a middle man who provide no real service.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
No, I do think the U.S. develops a lot of great medical technologies. But what do insurance companies have anything to do with that? They shortchange the people who actually provide services and make discoveries all the time.

I am all for going to a single-payer system for efficiency's sake. You don't have to convince me bureaucracy is a problem.

Obama is trying to move us towards a single-payer system, although he is taking it one step at a time. America isn't quite at the point where it will accept a complete governmental takeover of the healthcare system.

Get rid of insurance companies completely if you ask me. They are a middle man who provide no real service.

That's what socialized healthcare does more... shortchange those people even more.   The government as one base as you want it will be able to negotiate cheaper prices from the providers of medical products and technology.... since it's them or no one basically... as such, less people will fund these companies because the money just won't be in it anymore... and less people will be interested in doing the reasearch because it won't pay as well.

 



I thought the auto bailout was less about saving the industry than it was about saving untold numbers of jobs in an economic climate that can ill afford that kind of disruption.

Would you prefer the government use that money to find a more direct way of keeping those people employed, ala the WPA or CCC?



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final, no, it was more at saving the industry.

America will always need cars. If the big 3 collapsed, people would still buy cars. Just not from the big 3. There *are* other car manufacturers out there, and with their increased demand, they would hire some of the unemployed.

And given how atrocious the UAW is at managing employee benefits, the big 3 had done far too much to deserve an auto bailout. Why aren't Nissan, Toyota, or Honda looking for handouts, too?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
Final, no, it was more at saving the industry.

America will always need cars. If the big 3 collapsed, people would still buy cars. Just not from the big 3. There *are* other car manufacturers out there, and with their increased demand, they would hire some of the unemployed.

And given how atrocious the UAW is at managing employee benefits, the big 3 had done far too much to deserve an auto bailout. Why aren't Nissan, Toyota, or Honda looking for handouts, too?

They are actually.

Or at least it's expected. 

I don't know how you can blame the UAW... the Big 3 are the ones who granted them those benifits.  The UAW weren't the ones who were supposed to handle the money that pays for the retirees and employees benfits.  The Automakers were supposed to handle all that.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090304-Toyota-Honda-Mazda-May-Ask-for-Government-Bailout/