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Forums - General - WTF are Traditional Values?

jv103 on 25 February 2009
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
HappySqurriel said:

It usually depends on the context it is being used in ...

In some cases people are refering to how people no longer value hard-work, and everyone seems to have an entitlement complex.

 

oh good, a  sweeping generalisation, i have met only a couple of people in my life to whom either of your statements could apply, most people i know do value hard work and i can only think of 1 person i know who has anything approaching an "entitlement complex"

 

First off, you're pretty dense if you don't understand what an example is ...

Now, I have no evidence to support that people have a greater entitlement complex today then they ever have but I have seen more people who I would say have entitlement issues than those that don't; when you have an economy that is built on people living above their means you'd have difficulty demonstrating that people do not have entitlement issues.

How did entitlement come into the argument? Besides, I'm pretty sure entitlement (in one form or another -particularly family entitlement) is at least a three hundred year old tradition. Reduced family size by way of technological innovation like the plow made way for capital accumulation and entitlements to the next generation within a family.

If you are speaking about the government, I imagine it is a shift based on the society. It's seems most 'values' shift depending on what is required in society- like family size (not too many people making kids straight on til menopause any more right?). People figure out how they can get by in the easiest manner. It doesn't seem like it would be a suprise. In fact it seems like perfect human innovation.

Take a bloated government from a rich nation and get money without putting anything in. It's fucking genius.

 



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SciFiBoy on 25 February 2009
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
i see, so my values would be non-traditional then? or is there another name for my values?

That would really depend on what your values are ...

 

 

im a liberal atheist, im pro-choice, anti-war (in most cases), pro-euthanasia, pro-legalisation of less dangerous drugs, socialist

 

 

That defines your affiliations and your political positions, but doesn’t really say anything about your values.

 

freedom, equality, peace



HappySqurriel on 25 February 2009
SciFiBoy said:
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
i see, so my values would be non-traditional then? or is there another name for my values?

That would really depend on what your values are ...

 

 

im a liberal atheist, im pro-choice, anti-war (in most cases), pro-euthanasia, pro-legalisation of less dangerous drugs, socialist

 

 

That defines your affiliations and your political positions, but doesn’t really say anything about your values.

 

freedom, equality, peace

 

These are now values, but they're so vague they are the same values that everyone will lay claim to ...

For example, when you talk about equality are you referring to 'equality of opportunity' or 'equality of outcome'? Someone (like myself) who values 'equality of opportunity' would say that all women who want it should be allowed to try to become firefighters (and unfair criteria should be eliminated), while someone who believed in 'equality of outcome' would want the criteria to be adjusted so that you had a representative number of female firefighters.

 



The Ghost of RubangB on 25 February 2009

I think Devo said it best in 1981, regarding their new album:




Remember, no one knows. So let’s find out. Devo asks the questions that help point us all in the right direction, to go forward, move ahead, and give the past the slip. It is a time to seek out new traditions. We know where the old ones took us, and now we are all here together.

So lets go, take in the full measure of Devo’s ‘New Traditionalists’ spirit. The vinyl record and cassette tape of Devo’s latest musical outpourings is entitled ‘New Traditionalists’. To purchase it is not like spending money, but rather it is an investment in the future, and a blow against the empire.

This is Nu-Tra for Devo Incorporated saying “Bombs Away!”



twitter.com/evaneldeneller

Sunday Fundays

SciFiBoy on 25 February 2009
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
i see, so my values would be non-traditional then? or is there another name for my values?

That would really depend on what your values are ...

 

 

im a liberal atheist, im pro-choice, anti-war (in most cases), pro-euthanasia, pro-legalisation of less dangerous drugs, socialist

 

 

That defines your affiliations and your political positions, but doesn’t really say anything about your values.

 

freedom, equality, peace

 

These are now values, but they're so vague they are the same values that everyone will lay claim to ...

For example, when you talk about equality are you referring to 'equality of opportunity' or 'equality of outcome'? Someone (like myself) who values 'equality of opportunity' would say that all women who want it should be allowed to try to become firefighters (and unfair criteria should be eliminated), while someone who believed in 'equality of outcome' would want the criteria to be adjusted so that you had a representative number of female firefighters.

 

 

i believe that people should be treated equally regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc, so if people apply for a job, the only factor in wether or not they get it should be how good they are/would be at it.



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HappySqurriel on 25 February 2009
SciFiBoy said:

i believe that people should be treated equally regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc, so if people apply for a job, the only factor in wether or not they get it should be how good they are/would be at it.

 

That is very much an equality of opportunity position, but you're a self described socialist and socialism is an equality of outcomes political-economic system ...

 



SciFiBoy on 25 February 2009
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:

i believe that people should be treated equally regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc, so if people apply for a job, the only factor in wether or not they get it should be how good they are/would be at it.

 

That is very much an equality of opportunity position, but you're a self described socialist and socialism is an equality of outcomes political-economic system ...

 

 

?



akuma587 on 25 February 2009
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:

i believe that people should be treated equally regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc, so if people apply for a job, the only factor in wether or not they get it should be how good they are/would be at it.

 

That is very much an equality of opportunity position, but you're a self described socialist and socialism is an equality of outcomes political-economic system ...

 

You are assuming that he adheres to every aspect of socialism, and that he believes in socialism to the extent you claim he believes in socialism.

I know a lot of people who are capitalists, but they think the government plays a fundamental role in markets.  Does that mean they aren't a capitalist?  No.  It just means that they aren't 100% capitalist.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

HappySqurriel on 25 February 2009
akuma587 said:
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:

i believe that people should be treated equally regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc, so if people apply for a job, the only factor in wether or not they get it should be how good they are/would be at it.

 

That is very much an equality of opportunity position, but you're a self described socialist and socialism is an equality of outcomes political-economic system ...

 

You are assuming that he adheres to every aspect of socialism, and that he believes in socialism to the extent you claim he believes in socialism.

I know a lot of people who are capitalists, but they think the government plays a fundamental role in markets. Does that mean they aren't a capitalist? No. It just means that they aren't 100% capitalist.

 

Socialism is a very specific political-economic system, while capatalism is a much more generic economic system ... Saying you're a socialist would be much more like saying you are a laisse-faire capatalist, and if you later said that the government should regulate markets your stance would be inconsistent.



SciFiBoy on 25 February 2009

im tired and confused now