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Forums - General - WTF are Traditional Values?

In America whenever someone brings up "family values" and they are conservative they are speaking of the times when everyone valued Christian Morality and ethics, and want the government to promote that now. These folks want everyone in nuclear families and do not want any sort of homosexuality, mixed marriages, sexual freedom, or anything else not seen as wholesome promoted by the government. Look at a bunch of George W. Bush's speeches about Gay Marriage, and you get this idea.

basically they want us to all live like "leave it to Beaver" again like in the 1950's.



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The Ghost of RubangB said:

 

An increasing divorce rate is a threat to family values, which are the cornerstone of America. If we don't have married couples raising children (our future) in nuclear families, we can't have strong communities, churches, cities, or states. The increase in the divorce rate is attributed to the fact that today women can get divorces just as easily as men, and it turns out that there were a lot of shitty marriages out there that women have wanted out of for a long time. It used to be the case that men could opt out of marriage and women couldn't. That was unfair, but many people ignore that and think that the increasing divorce rate isn't a sign of women gaining freedom, but a sign of some other vague societal evil that makes people not love each other the way they used to. This way you can take a good thing (women gaining one single equal right) and turn it into an attack on atheists, homosexuals, feminists, liberals, or whomever else, and call it supporting marriage, or traditional values, or traditional family values, or whatever. The enemy in this argument can be replaced constantly, and you're always the good guy, because you care about families.

Does that make more sense? I don't mind if you disagree, but I just wanted to state my case more clearly and seriously. I just think that the concept is pretty lulzy and required a lulzy response. But there's my serious take on it.

 

"Family Values" can often be included in "Traditional Values" but I don't think that people are necessarily refering to "Family Values" when they talk about "Traditional Values" ... An example of this distinction is that a value like 'Respect your Elders' is a very traditional value that is not (necessarily) a family value.

On the topic of divorce, in Canada it really wasn't that long ago when you needed an act of parliament to get a divorce and there has never (really) been a disproportionate ability for women or men to get a divorce. I think my Grandfather said it best when he explained why the divorce rate was so high today when he said "People today think that a wedding is a marriage, and they go through the ceremony whitout any understanding of why they're doing it."



Traditional values include not dating people outside your race, not talking to anyone outside your race, and only having sex in the missionary position. Oh, and traditional values say that the clitoris does not exist!

Traditional values also mean that it is OK for a husband to kill his wife and children.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Traditional values refer to those beliefs, moral codes, and mores that are passed down from generation to generation within a culture, subculture or community. Since the late 1970s in the U.S., the term "traditional values" has become synonymous with "family values" and imply a congruence with orthodox Christianity.



akuma587 said:
Traditional values include not dating people outside your race, not talking to anyone outside your race, and only having sex in the missionary position. Oh, and traditional values say that the clitoris does not exist!

Traditional values also mean that it is OK for a husband to kill his wife and children.

 

That may be what you think traditional values means, but that is not necessarily what it means ... Let's look at the Wikipedia entry

Traditional values refer to those beliefs, moral codes, and mores that are passed down from generation to generation within a culture, subculture or community. Since the late 1970s in the U.S., the term "traditional values" has become synonymous with "family values" and imply a congruence with orthodox Christianity. However "family values" is arguably a modern politicized subset of traditional values, which is a larger concept, anthropologically speaking. It is also not necessarily a political idea, though has come to be associated with a particular vein of Evangelism and politics, embodied by some American politicians such as Ronald Reagan, Dan Quayle, and George W. Bush, and the Christian right more broadly, as embodied for example by Pat Robertson. For a clearer sense of the range of differences, one can compare interest in reviving traditional values in Native American communities, such as Red Lake Indian Reservation, to the Family Research Council. Or, within Christianity, the difference can be seen in the interpretation of the idea by C. S. Lewis and Jerry Falwell.

In its own right "traditional values" simply means the values coming from tradition rather than any specific philosopher, moralist, or writer. This means the "traditional values" of non-Western societies may be wildly at variance from any Christian Right notion of Family values. Societies based on traditional values often embrace animism and ancestor worship rather than any Abrahamic religion. Confucianism also tends to place high value on the maintenance of traditional culture and values. It is related to the concept of traditional authority and folk culture.

That said, the term does apply to Abrahamic cultures as well. It can mean the actual values that are claimed or perceived to have remained relatively unchanged for centuries, for example the values in the Apostles' Creed, the preservation of the Coptic language in Coptic Christianity, the values in the Hadith, or certain rites in Orthodox Judaism. In Christianity, maintaining tradition is perhaps most valued in the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, and Oriental Orthodoxy, although within Protestantism the Old Order Amish and some Anglo-Catholics could be deemed to place a strong value on traditional values. Historical research often shows that traditions and immutable values, in fact, change more over time than most adherents recognize.

The term can also refer to an intention to preserve ancient or traditional customs and values against anything deemed "innovation." In Abrahamic religion Old Believers and traditionalist Catholics can be deemed to be champions of "traditional values." In Zoroastrianism those who oppose conversion as being against the religious tradition generally deem themselves to be a force for "traditional values." Radical elements of Hindutva are also intent to keep any Christian or other "foreign" religious values from entering their society, although their more modern views on Hindu law might make their relation to traditional values more complex than this implies. There are also Hopi traditionalists who wish to keep Christianity and other "foreign" religions from gaining a foothold amongst their people and who prefer that Native American languages be used instead of English, Spanish, and so forth.

Attempts at creating a kind of universalized "traditional values" has proved generally difficult or even impossible. It is generally fair to say that usually traditional values tend, by definition, toward conservativism and that they often, but not always, accept some form of patriarchy as normative.



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i see, so my values would be non-traditional then? or is there another name for my values?



SciFiBoy said:
i see, so my values would be non-traditional then? or is there another name for my values?

That would really depend on what your values are ...

 

 



I believe what it comes to is a nostalgic view of the past. Ignoring things that are distasteful in particular. I mean we all use nostalgia, it's a way in which we can somehow identify with who we are.

Of course, any sociologist will tell you that traditions mean zip. Traditions are constantly changed and redefined or invented. Meaning traditional values in a sense are mythical because traditional values of 1950 are much different than what someone conservative of today considers 'traditional' values. Either liberal or conservative, people tend to imagine that their particular beliefs were common in a particular period to find some sort of identity.

I don't know though. It could mean imposition of my will on you.

PLEASE RECONGNIZE THAT TRADITIONAL VALUES ARE A MYTH. The idea that somehow people weren't people and varied is absurd.

Shit even in the Middle Ages many documents discuss interacial union, incest, rape (e.g between arabs and anglos) etc. I mean this stuff was common, I'm not saying it's right, but I think most people have a really white-washed/nostalgic idea of the past.



HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
i see, so my values would be non-traditional then? or is there another name for my values?

That would really depend on what your values are ...

 

 

im a liberal atheist, im pro-choice, anti-war (in most cases), pro-euthanasia, pro-legalisation of less dangerous drugs, socialist

 



SciFiBoy said:
HappySqurriel said:
SciFiBoy said:
i see, so my values would be non-traditional then? or is there another name for my values?

That would really depend on what your values are ...

 

 

im a liberal atheist, im pro-choice, anti-war (in most cases), pro-euthanasia, pro-legalisation of less dangerous drugs, socialist

 

 

That defines your affiliations and your political positions, but doesn’t really say anything about your values.